Fediverse

Dieinahole ,

Why is kbin so broken?

404's everywhere, "we're working on it" signs everywhere else.

Like sure, not being able to find my response in the pile of thread sounds like Linux problems, but how is this not loading faster and better than reddit?

ono ,

My understanding is that it got a big surge of users at a time when it wasn’t really intended for the public, and is now having growing pains.

ThatOneKirbyMain2568 , (edited )
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

Now that for-profit tech companies are beginning to implement , I think it's important to establish what we want with the and whether federation with , , Tumblr, and the like bring us closer to or further from those goals.

With that in mind, I've come up with a few statements (in no particular order) that describe what I think is an "ideal fediverse" — a fediverse that's not necessarily realistic but that we should aim for:

  1. No actor controls a large portion of visible activity.
  2. Users can move between instances without penalty.
  3. Creating and running an instance requires minimal effort.
  4. People on or entering the fediverse understand the variety of available options.
  5. There is no downside to using free and open-source platforms over proprietary ones.

These definitely aren't comprehensive, and if you have anything you'd add, let's discuss that! They're currently helping me reassess my stance on Threads now that Flipboard is also entering the stage, and I hope they're helpful for others as well.

I'll elaborate on these five statements in the comments.

1/3

rah ,

I’d say the fediverse in general

The whole point of the fediverse in general is that there is no single “we”. There are those ActivityPub servers that one federates with and those ActivityPub servers that one does not federate with. Lack of consensus is built into the technology by design.

but I think it’s still important that everyone at least thinks about what they want the fediverse to grow into

To have wants about the social constructs that sit atop the technology is to misunderstand the technology. The technology enables your enemies/people you don’t like/etc. to communicate and benefit in all the ways you do. By design. You cannot exclude from the fediverse, you can only exclude from your server. If you have wants about excluding then you’ve misunderstood the technology.

ThatOneKirbyMain2568 OP ,
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

@rah Maybe I'm not being clear. When I say that "we" means "the fediverse in general", I don't mean that everyone should gather 'round and come to a consensus on what values they should uphold and who should be excluded. This is obviously something that should occur on an instance or individual level, as (A) there are a large variety of different people and instances on the fediverse with different priorities and (B) as you stated, anyone can implement ActivityPub and tap into the fediverse if they want to, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

What I mean is that people should be thinking about what they think instance owners should aim for and form their opinions on the current situation based on that. My goal with this post is to show what I think an "ideal fediverse" looks like and have others share their thoughts. Having thoughts about what's healthy for people on the fediverse and having wants based on that isn't misunderstanding the technology — it's simply expressing preferences.

Kierunkowy74 , Polish
@Kierunkowy74@kbin.social avatar

@gmph postanowił zintegrować Mastodona jako system do skomentowania jego wpisu. Widzę, że komentarze wyświetlają się tylko chronologicznie - bez wątkowania w szeroko omawianym artykule, takim jak ten, gwarantuje to nieczytelny bałagan.

A, i testuję, czy wpis z /kbin pojawi się pod artykułem

https://grahammacphee.com/writing/mastodon-blog-comments

Kierunkowy74 OP ,
@Kierunkowy74@kbin.social avatar

Działa!

ThatOneKirbyMain2568 , (edited )
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

I've been thinking a bit about this post regarding 's responsibility to be compatible with the ( thread aggregators like & ). Right now, a thread from Lemmy or Kbin usually federates to Mastodon with truncated text and a link to the actual thread. However, many want Mastodon to be more compatible with threads so that the people over on Mastodon interact with the threadiverse more.

I was initially in agreement as a Kbin user. But having given it some thought, I think this is an unwise approach that'll only serve to overcomplicate platforms on the . Yes, people on Mastodon should promote other parts of the fediverse (and vice versa), but complete interoperability shouldn't be expected of every platform.

As much as many would like it, you can't have long-form video from PeerTube, images from Pixelfed, threads from Kbin, blogs from Writefreely, etc. all neatly fit in a microblog feed. These are different formats made for different platforms, and the people making them are expecting them to be interacted with in completely different ways. When someone makes a thread in a Lemmy community, they're probably expecting that the people who are going to see and interact with the thread are people that want to see threads and are thus on a Lemmy instance (or another thread aggregator). If someone from Mastodon were to interact with it as if it were a microblog post, there'd be a big mismatch. People interact with microblogs differently than they do with threads — that's why they're separate to begin with. You don't see everyone on Twitter also wanting to use to Reddit because people who want microblogs don't necessarily want Reddit-style threads, and vice versa.

The other option, then, is to separate these different formats into different feeds or otherwise make them clearly distinct from one another. Kbin does this by separating threads and microblog posts into two tabs. While you can view both in the "All Content" tab if you'd like, they're styled differently enough that it's very clear when you're looking at a thread and when you're looking at a microblog post. This distinction lets users treat threads like threads and microblog posts like microblog posts, which is really helpful since the two formats serve different purposes and have different audiences. This option — clear distinction — is a great way to solve the conundrum I've been talking about… if your platform is meant for viewing all these different kinds of content to begin with.

And that's what it really comes down to imo. Mastodon is a platform for microblogging. Most people go to Mastodon because they want a Twitter alternative, not a Twitter alternative that's also an Instagram alternative and a Reddit alternative and a YouTube alternative. Even if you put these different content types in separate tabs, it would inevitably make things seem more confusing and thus raise the barrier of entry. Add a Videos tab to Mastodon to view stuff on PeerTube, and people are inevitably going to go, "Wait, what's this? Is this like YouTube? I thought this was just a Twitter alternative! This all seems too complicated," even if you tell them to ignore it.

It's probably best to leave Mastodon as it is: a microblogging platform that has some limited federation with other formats. The way Kbin threads currently display on Mastodon is fine. In fact, when I post a Kbin thread, I'm expecting it to be viewed via a thread aggregator. If people on Mastodon were part of the target audience, I would've made a microblog post.

Now, if you want to make something that lets you view everything on the fediverse via different tabs, feel free. As aforementioned, Kbin supports both threads and microblogs, though it comes with some challenges (e.g., trying to fit magazine-less microblog posts into Kbin's magazine system). However, this doesn't mean every platform on the fediverse needs to seamlessly incorporate everything else. I'd love people on Mastodon to promote and even try out Lemmy & Kbin more, but that doesn't mean Mastodon needs to also become a thread aggregator.

Masimatutu ,
@Masimatutu@kbin.social avatar

@ThatOneKirbyMain2568 Oh hello there! It's me on my kbin account. Please excuse my ramble, I wasn't feeling very well.

I will say that your point is well made and that different platforms should definitely prioritise different kinds of content. For instance, I find it entirely reasonable for Lemmy to not federate anything that is not in a magazine, and that Pixelfed only supports content with images. That is simply what they were made for.

But Mastodonians account for nearly 80% of Fedizens making it most people's entire viewpoint of the Fediverse, which makes it reasonable that they support its entire diverse range of content, considering that they are almost there (microblogs, macroblogs, pictures; only thing left is titled content, which they could simply reformat just like Lemmy reformats microblogs).

They will mostly see microblogs anyway, since that is currently more than 90% of the Fediverse and that's what people are more likely to boost, but it will be an option to view other content, maybe helping other platforms get off the ground and allowing the Fediverse to develop like it should. I will also add that the mismatch is not that big. I have often seen Mastodonians making meaningful contributions in Lemmy discussions, and I've seen a Lemmy comment making the boost rounds on Mastodon.

And I completely agree that a distinction should be made between different kinds of content. I have quite a few times seen a stray Mastodonian complaining under content from other platforms saying it doesn't live up to their expectations. I quite like Friendica's approach to this; putting the platform as a badge next to the username in each post.

ThatOneKirbyMain2568 OP , (edited )
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

@Masimatutu

I get that Mastodon has most of the people on the fediverse, but that doesn't mean it's on Mastodon to feed activity to other platforms. Even if it wanted to, I don't think it could.

Even if we ignore the issues, I just don't think other ActivityPub platforms would benefit much from this. People are going to Mastodon for microblogs, not all the other stuff. Even if you give people the option to view PeerTube videos from Mastodon, if that's not what they're here for, then most of them won't bother. We see this on other platforms. Even on Kbin, which has great support for the microblog format with a unique tab and all, a ton of the people who came here for a Reddit alternative just don't bother with the Twitter stuff.

And again, that's ignoring all the downsides of implementing this stuff. Add all of this non-microblog stuff, and more people who are searching for a Twitter alternative will disregard Mastodon as too cluttered and confusing. People already do that because of needing to pick an instance, and yet more do because they can't immediately grasp federation. Additionally, those who do interact with, say, a Lemmy comment through Mastodon won't be aware of the context behind it being in a Lemmy thread that's part of a community and which has different functionality (e.g., downvotes & a title). You could have a badge to indicate that it's from Lemmy, but then you worsen the problem of people getting to Mastodon and going, "Wait, wtf is this? Why is this platform so confusing?"

And let's say Lemmy/Kbin threads did get some great surge in activity from this. You'd end up with a significant portion of activity on these platform being people using a Twitter alternative, which I don't think people looking for a Reddit alternative (or even people already on these platforms) would find desirable.

Since you brought it up, I think Lemmy's handling of microblogs is a good example of what I mean, as I don't think Lemmy should be handling microblogs at all. Lemmy has to assign a title to something that doesn't have one and downvotes to something that doesn't accept them. The result is that several Kbin magazines, when viewed from Lemmy, are dotted with posts that obviously aren't meant to be there and which would clutter the thread to death if microblog usage on Kbin increased. And for what? When I make a microblog post, I don't intend for it to reach people on Lemmy, as that format is not what most people on Lemmy are interested in. Likewise, most people on Lemmy aren't trying to reach people on the Twitter alternative and might prefer not to. Lemmy supporting microblogs doesn't really do much, and the same would go for Mastodon even given its large user count. People just won't be interested.

EDIT: Forgot some text.

blinry , (edited )
@blinry@kbin.social avatar

Hey :) @Piko and I are trying out as part of !

flatearth ,

Flat earth real life testimony 6/7

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj-2dvjjVCY

You can visit and watch the whole 7.
Joyful Christmas in advance! 😀
Joyful Mysteries... 😇

SayJess ,

Is this a joke?

ernest ,
@ernest@kbin.social avatar

This series will never get old ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdfNuwMhMg4 [english subtitles]

ThatOneKirbyMain2568 ,
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

I've noticed that a lot of people on the aren't particularly welcoming to those who don't initially get it or have trouble with it. You'd think that if multiple people say they have trouble picking an instance, it might be a genuine barrier to entry that we need to consider when introducing them to the fediverse. But no, instead of suggesting an instance to get rid of that barrier everyone gives unhelpful advice like "just pick one" or "it's not that hard." We'd have a much easier time getting people on the fediverse if there weren't so many people with this attitude of "the fediverse is simple, and the people who don't get it are lazy and should try harder."

wizardbeard ,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The issue is that there isn’t really anything more to choosing an instance than just picking one though, and we don’t want to funnel every new user to a single instance lest this end up becoming just reddit with extra steps. Or the reccomended instance gets flooded with more traffic than it can handle.

At most, a new user may want to look at what instances have defederated from the one they want to sign up on, but that’s a concept that isn’t going to make sense to someone who is already having trouble understanding “sign up somewhere, interact with everywhere” setup.

Numerous guides to all of this have been created. Rather than tilting at windmills (you will never stop people from being rude online, best to just accept it) your effort would be better spent being the friendly guiding hand. That’s far more effective than trying to call out people who probably don’t care whether we’re attracting more users or not.

ThatOneKirbyMain2568 OP ,
@ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.social avatar

@wizardbeard I'd argue that telling people to join largest (or at least a larger) instance isn't a bad thing. If I was telling someone to join Kbin, I'd tell them to just pick kbin.social. Later on, once they get accustomed to fediverse and understand the idea better, they can go to a smaller instance if they want
(e.g., if it's focused on a topic you like, it has features or moderation policies you prefer, or you just want to take some load off the larger instance). Having people initially go to larger, more established instances — where the experience tends to be more approachable due to more active hosts, more old content being federated, a larger community within the instance, etc. — greatly reduces the barrier to entry.

And the danger of a lot of people on a single instance is really exaggerated. If things go badly on, say, a Lemmy instance that most people are on, they can just move to another one with the same features, same UI, and similar access to content. It's not like Reddit or Twitter where moving means you're missing out on a ton.

You're right that it's usually better to be the change you want to see as opposed to simply criticizing others, but I think it's still important to discuss how we introduce people to the fediverse.

Felcher ,

I have been feeling crock for a few weeks, I have done the antibiotics / steroids thing and I am feeling as rough as a Badgers arse. I thought that I would try the stuff that was shoveled down my throat as a kid, I couldn't find any and my wife suggested these 2 alternatives. I am pleased to say that I am feeling some improvement.

xosomienbac , Vietnamese

XSMB - Kết quả xổ số miền Bắc - KQSXMB - XSKTMB hôm nay - SXMB

Sân chơi xổ số kiến thiết miền Bắc ngày càng thu hút sự quan tâm của nhiều tay chơi dự thưởng mỗi ngày. Số lượng người chơi dự thưởng cũng ngày càng tăng cao, nhưng bạn có bao giờ thắc mắc tại sao lối chơi này có gì mà nhiều người chơi lựa chọn đến vậy? Cùng tìm hiểu chi tiết nhất các thông tin cơ bản về lối chơi kết quả xổ số miền Bắc này với chúng tôi qua bài viết nhé.

Lối chơi KQSXMB là gì?

vkc ,
@vkc@kbin.social avatar

My name is Veronica and I don't know how to use kbin. :P

Has anyone written up an explainer for kbin for folks who never really understood Reddit?

Also, can I comment on a PeerTube video from here? I tried it on one of mine and it didn't seem to work.

Anyway, I'm new. Hi!

vkc OP ,
@vkc@kbin.social avatar

@ernest Thank you! I take it you work on this site, if so thank you and I'm sorry for being such a newb.

ernest ,
@ernest@kbin.social avatar

@vkc Don't worry. In the near future, we'll be working on integrating with, among others, Peertube. For now, you can search for people from Peertube and follow their accounts, for example, "warroza@tube.pol.social." At some point, their content will start appearing in your feed ;) Enjoy.

Lynurban , (edited )
@Lynurban@kbin.social avatar

I need a job.

I'm wondering if any of you need a virtual assistant. I'm Lynda from Nigeria, currently unemployed, and thought maybe someone here would be interested in employing me. I have experience working with an online institute as an admission counsellor.

If anyone is interested, please reach out!

Swim ,
Lynurban OP ,
@Lynurban@kbin.social avatar

@Swim The link is for potential scam submission form.

wxfyr , Chinese

这个怎么用啊???! 支持多少字啊?这个怎么用啊???! 支持多少字啊?这个怎么用啊???! 支持多少字啊?这个怎么用啊???! 支持多少字啊?这个怎么用啊???! 支持多少字啊?这个怎么用啊???! 支持多少字啊?这个怎么用啊???! 支持多少字啊?
https://wx1.sinaimg.cn/large/006b0IMQly1hjkhkrk458j31hc1hc1kz.jpg
https://wx1.sinaimg.cn/large/006b0IMQly1hjkhksn98hj30sg0sge7v.jpg
https://wx1.sinaimg.cn/large/006b0IMQly1hjkhktc3j4j31z41z4e84.jpg
https://wx2.sinaimg.cn/large/006b0IMQly1hjkhkxilusj31z41z4qv8.jpg

SamXavia ,
@SamXavia@kbin.run avatar

I've been testing out Mbin on the kbin.run instance and it sure feels faster but it also feels empty and I'm pretty sure it's because Kbin / Mbin requires someone to have searched for a user or community/magazine before you can actually see it. Seems like this could hinder smaller instances in the long run.

SamXavia ,
@SamXavia@kbin.social avatar

I do wonder when will actually open up to the rest of the Fediverse. It seems like each day is moving towards that it will never be open to it.

Chais ,
@Chais@sh.itjust.works avatar

I don’t. There are enough shitposts as it is. I’m not missing the billions of Facebook idiots.

testing ,
@testing@kbin.social avatar

if your internet connection is slow to non-existent, kbin is your way to go > it just works (tm) even under bad conditions

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