solarvector ,

The article is being disingenuous about data not being deleted unless it's overwritten with 1's and 0's. Technically that's true, but:

Most data being deleted is equivalent to a piece of paper being placed in a trashcan, and it's "permanently" deleted when that trash gets hauled away to a landfill (or supposedly recycling but that's another topic). Technically it's still forensically accessible, but it isn't accessible by any normal means. That piece of paper may not have been incinerated, but for the majority of practical purposes, it's gone.

Apple never hauled the trash away, even though they claimed they did. There should be no way for them to accidentally restore those photos, just like there's no way for you to accidentally get a piece of paper back in your trash bin after it's been sent to a landfill.

Focusing on the 1s and 0s skips past the fact they failed to complete the first, obvious, essential step. If they didn't delete it the simple way, they would never have gotten to the 1s and 0s step. This isn't just a simple oversight, and those pictures were still very easily accessible, just not to the people who should have been in control of them.

logi ,

In your analogy, they never even put the photos in the trash can. They just put a postit on them saying "don't show to user". Then the updated software forgot about the postits (and started to post tits).

lolola ,
@lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I appreciate this thread's nuanced discussion of how file deletion works from a technical standpoint depending on storage medium. But as a user, when I delete something, it should go away forever. I don't care how.

TimeSquirrel , (edited )
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

If every time an OS had to delete something it had to fill the space with zeros or garbage data multiple times just to make extra sure it's gone, we'd all be trashing our flash chips very fast, and performance would be heavily degraded. There really isn't a way around this.

The solution to keep private files private is to put them into an encrypted container of some sort where you control the keys.

5too ,

Step away from hardware constraints for a moment, and consider the OS:

If the OS says a file is deleted, under no circumstances should the OS be able to recover it. Sure, certain tools may exist to pull it back; but it should be unavailable to the OS after that. And yet, apparently a software update was enough to recover these files. Thus, the concerns about data safety in an environment where the OS cannot be trusted to remove data when it says it has been removed.

TimeSquirrel ,
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

So let's stop calling it "deleted" then, and call it what it is. "Forgetting".

I'm not sure what you actually want the OS to do about it other than as I said, fill it with random data.

borari , (edited )
@borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I think this is just semantics at this point, but to me there is a difference between “deleted” and “erased”. I see deleted as the typical “moved to trash” or rm action, with erased being overwritten bits, or like microwaving a drive.

Edit - If i remember correctly deleting something in most OS’s/File Systems just deletes the pointer to that file on disk. The data just hangs out until new data is written to that sector. The solution, other than the one you mentioned about encrypting stored data and destroying the key when you want the data “deleted”, would be to only ever store data in volatile memory. That would make for a horrendous user experience though.

Hildegarde ,

You can delete files by overwriting the data. On Linux its shred -zu [file]. Its slow but good to do if you are deleting sensitive data.

Its good its not the standard delete function.

Liz ,

Question: what fraction of bits do you need to randomly flip to ensure the data is unrecoverable?

barsoap ,

Information theory aside: In practice all because you can't write bit-by-bit and if you leave full bytes untouched there still might be enough information for an attacker to get information, especially if it's of the "did this computer once store this file" kind of information, not the actual file contents.

If I'm not completely mistaken overwriting the file once will be enough to prevent recovering with logical means, that is, reading the bits the way the manufacturer intended you to, physical forensics can go further by being able to discern "this bit, before it got overwritten, was a 1 or 0" by looking very closely at the physical medium, details on how much flipping you need to defeat that will depend on the physical details.

And I wouldn't be too terribly sure about that electro magnet you built into your case to erase your HDD with a panic button: It's in a fixed place, will have a fixed magnetic field, it's going to scramble everything sure but the way it scrambles is highly uniform so the bits can probably be recovered. If you want to be really sure buy a crucible and melt the thing.

Also, may I interest you in this stylish tin-foil hat, special offer.

Natanael ,

If it's completely random then 50%, that's how stream ciphers works.

Hildegarde ,

If you delete normally, only the index of the files are removed, so the data can be recovered by a recovery program reading the "empty" space on the disk and looking for readable data.

If you do a single pass erase, the bits will overwritten one time. About half the bits will be unchanged, but that makes little difference. Any recovery software trying to read it will read the newly written bits instead of the old ones and will not be able to recover anything.

However, forensic investigation can probably recover data after a single pass erase. The shred command defaults to 3 passes, but you can do many more if you need to be even more sure.

Unless you have data that someone would spend large sums on forensics to recover, 1 to 3 passes is probably enough.

RecluseRamble ,

Well, iOS could just do it like every other OS that don't restore deleted data by installing an update.

LodeMike , (edited )

Well, the storage device should handle that then. And modern NVMEs do. Self-encrypted drives are used to hide deleted information from an attacker that desolders the storage chips.

Edit: there are NVMEs that dont use self encryption, BUT they should still recognize a deleted sector.

TimeSquirrel ,
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

That would apply in my "encrypted container of some sort" solution, yes.

Natanael ,

Deletion commands are unfortunately not very reliable on many SSDs

LodeMike ,

The OS should never let that happen. It always should abstract the partition into a filesystem.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

I don't care how

grabs your phone, throws it on the ground and blasts it with a shotgun

There you go! =)

piracysails ,

Cloud's deleted folder enters the chat.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Objective updated: shoot cloud server

JoeBigelow ,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

John Connor has entered the chat

KnightontheSun ,

Many years ago, we had a troubled employee leave work very mad. He was quite furious with his computer and went home for his revolver unbeknownst to us. He came back to work with it and unloaded all six rounds into the system. Each round went through the case and each one missed the drive/motherboard/videocard. So, the system was still working despite the abrupt extra cooling holes. This further incensed him and he went away even madder, but this time in cuffs.

FlihpFlorp ,

The computer is good at dodging without moving

It’s like how I can talk while holding my breath but only over a call

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Wow, how do you suck that bad at aiming?

postmateDumbass ,

You never shoot the messenger monitor.

gravitas_deficiency ,

It’s pretty easy if you don’t know where the computer’s vital organs are

VindictiveJudge ,
@VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar
RIPandTERROR ,
@RIPandTERROR@sh.itjust.works avatar
brbposting ,

I’ve been pleased with their messaging on that - “deleted items remaining trash for [some period]…“ (IIRC)

lolola ,
@lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Hey at least I know it gets the job done

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Hmm. I don't know. Like, the actual surface involved in the storage is a lot smaller than the actual phone, and I imagine that you may-or-not destroy it with a given pellet.

I remember '80s movies -- from a time when a lot of people weren't all that personally-familiar with computers -- where someone "destroying a computer" consisted of shooting its screen, which might be not that far off what would be happening. here. In fact, I bet that that probably has a TV Tropes entry.

googles

Well, they have a guy punching it, same kind of idea.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ComputerEqualsMonitor

I will destroy this machine!

Yes! Now the other side will have to spend a whole $100 to replace it!

Might be kind of the same idea, just writ small.

borari ,
@borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’ve started seeing people, who really should know better, referring to the PC tower as the CPU. As in, “I bought a bracket that mounts to my variable height desk which can hold my CPU up off the floor and let it move with my desk”.

Bro I’m looking at a picture of a custom water cooled PC here, you should know the fucking difference between a CPU and a computer case.

DoctorButts ,

I learned everything about how to build a PC from buildapc... like 12 years ago. Nowadays it has been infested by idiots who don't know shit but act like they do, and also think more RGB = more better.

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

I don't know what happened, but I put together a PC for the first time in some years, and holy mother of God, all the components have RGB LEDs slapped on them now. I had to actively work to find parts that didn't have RGB LEDs on them (and I still accidentally wound up with some on the motherboard). I mean, yeah, LED case fans have been a thing for a while, and there was always a contingent that put electroluminescent strips on their computers. And it kinda grew into a lot of keyboards and mice. But now it's a large portion of CPU fans, most cases, RAM sticks have RGB LEDs, motherboards have RGB LEDs. I didn't have trouble finding non-RGB LED NVMe storage, or non-RGB LED SATA drives, but even there, you can get them. Hell, there are RGB LED cables.

I can only assume that a large portion of the people building PCs these days are doing it to have them physically blinged up.

Like, nothing wrong with wanting to do that, but I couldn't believe the tiny proportion that wasn't doing that.

VindictiveJudge ,
@VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

I actually like having lights on the keyboard. Mostly because I can find rarely used keys in the dark.

barsoap ,

The only way my box is blinged up is with tastefully beige-brown fans. I actually felt slightly betrayed by Noctua when they started making black fans.

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Eh, that's been a thing for a long time. Decades at least.

I think that the problem is that there isn't really a great term to clearly refer to the "non-monitor-and-peripherals" part of the "computer". "Case" would refer to just the case, not what's in it. "Tower" or "desktop" is overspecific, refers to particular form factors. I have a tower, but some people have under-monitor desktops (though that's rare today) or various times of small form factor PCs. If I say "computer", that doesn't really clearly exclude peripherals.

And honestly, we don't really use the term "GPU" quite correctly either. I'll call a whole PCI video card a "GPU", but I suppose that strictly-speaking, that should only be talking about a specific chip on the card.

rebelsimile ,

8 bit games would label the computer player as CPU as a shorthand, I honestly probably got snapped at by a nerd sometime in my teens for making the mistake and got the central processing unit lecture so I don’t really make that association but I also never heard anyone pronounce “NES” not as an acronym prior to YouTube, so, I figure different people have different experiences also.

Murdoc ,

At one time I remember people commonly referring to the case as the hard drive.

barsoap ,

You know what? They're technically correct. There's historically plenty of computer systems which came in multiple different cases, sometimes that's still the case but the most obvious examples are historical, where you would get something like the CPU (yes) in one case and then a huge-ass card reader in another case and drum memory in yet another. Those drums were used as RAM. Each case was standing on the floor, at least chest-high.

Simply integrating various peripherals into the CPU doesn't make the CPU any less of the CPU. Even ignoring the case thing and just looking at the CPU package (or even die): Modern CPUs contain a lot of things that would've been external to it, or even in a different case, in the past. You'll hear the term "SoC", system on a chip, thrown around but that's misleading most CPUs nowadays are SoCs: You have your CPU cores, yes, but you also have a memory controller, you have storage interfaces and general IO (PCIe is a storage interface), as well as a GPU. It's been a long time since mainboards came with northbridges. Newer CPUs may have enough memory on package to reasonably run without external memory (and not just "use the cache as ram during early boot" kind of stuff).

JoeBigelow ,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

Easy peasy

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Lemon squeezey

gravitas_deficiency ,

Well… if you really want to delete them…

takes blasted phone, insert remnants into small iron cup, places in inductive furnace

tiredofsametab ,

But as a user, when I delete something, it should go away forever.

Years of working tech support in my past tells me that this is a lie. "OMG restore this!"

linearchaos ,
@linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

I think tech would be a better place if it did actually go away when you deleted things. If something's not explicitly backed up people really should have no hope of bringing it back.

Everythingispenguins ,

That is what thermite is for.

VirtualOdour ,

The second drive bay is the right size for a handy block of data erasing c4

No one will ever read my Zuck / Bezos fanfic.

Everythingispenguins ,

Lol. I actually used to know a guy that claimed he used to have computer setup with a small thing to thermite on his hard drive and had set it up so if there were too many wrong passwords it would set the igniter off for the thermite. I don't know if you really, did but he definitely had the technical skills to do that. He was one of those extreme early adopters of BSD and Linux who never used GUI. Oh and he was batshit crazy, legitimately I can see him thinking that was a good idea.

LucidNightmare ,

It's to prevent you from accidentally deleting a photo you would never want to delete. If you want to make sure it's deleted, you just go into the Photos app and delete it from the Recently Deleted folder. I prefer this approach, as I have accidentally deleted a photo that I did not mean to, and luckily it was still there. Use cases are different though, so.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

That still doesn't fully erase the data though. It just tells the computer that that space on the drive is available to be overwritten, but the 1s and 0s are still recoverable

LucidNightmare ,

Right, right. I understand that. I was just explaining why the option is good for people like me. I don't take nudes, and I don't receive nudes, so I don't mind if the data is still there or not. I'm just glad the photo of me and my friend was still there when I noticed it was missing from my album after a recent meme deletion spree. lol

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Imo there should be options for standard deletion and total deletion. Standard is faster, puts less wear on the drive, and keeps the files potentially recoverable, whole total would make it totally unrecoverable at the expense of taking slightly longer and putting a bit more wear on the drive

cm0002 , (edited )

Computer data is never actually “deleted” until it’s overwritten with new 1s and 0s — operating systems simply cut off references to it.

That's not entirely correct, and I would expect a tech news site to know but ig not.

It's true with spinny's since they store data magnetically on the platter with 1s and 0s, but SSDs store data on the NAND as a held charge. If there's a charge in the block it's a 1 if there's no charge it's a 0.

With spinny's, when a file gets marked as "deleted" the residual magnetic 1s and 0s will remain on the platter until eventually overwritten like they say

But with SSDs, when a file gets marked "deleted" then within no more than a few minutes TRIM comes along and ensures the charge on the NAND is released (Which means that data is gone, permanently) for that data, there's no residuals to worry about like with spinny's and is in fact necessary to ensure decent lifespans.

ETA: Link to a study from last year on this

pete_the_cat ,

This is dependent on the TRIM schedule. It could be size based (execute a TRIM when 50% of the blocks are used).

TheHobbyist ,

Perhaps, but this is unrelated. The magnetic charges may still be there, but if the reference to the content is deleted, how is the filesystem meant to know what file is there? This seems really suspicious to me.

cm0002 ,

TRIM works outside the filesystem, it does not care about 99.9% of it, the only part it cares about is if there is a reference in filesystem to the block charges. No reference == data to be released

cm0002 ,

It could be or maybe the SSD has its own on-firmware TRIM schedule, but all major OS's execute a TRIM on a time based schedule no longer than every 10-15 minutes.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Afaik the default for windows 10 is weekly via disk defragmenter, and that assumes it recognizes the drive as an ssd. I've had drives cloned to ssds that retain the hdd flag and had to setup a 3rd party tool that actually saw it properly and would trim as expected.

11 might have reigned that in... but probably not.

Traister101 ,

There's most certainly residuals, I've accidentally deleted then installed Windows on top of a bunch of my game saves. I found some random file recovery application and let it run for awhile. Guess what? Nearly everything was readable despite the fact it got wiped and then had a whole windows install.

NAND also experiences minor permanent damage on writes. Actually clearing the NAND involves a write as the charge has to be forced out (a write of 0s)

cm0002 , (edited )

This can happen when TRIM is disabled

Here's a study published last year I read that goes through this exact thing

In consideration of results obtained from the experiments, it concluded that the behavior of
Wear Leveling in different SSD manufacturers having the same storage capacities does not match.
It varies based on the number of files, types of files, and sizes. The recovery of files from different
SSD manufacturers showed different results. In all SSDs, not a single trace of any file found in
disk format scenario(s). Whereas, some of the data recovered in the delete case and from only one
drive.
It clearly showed different behavior of data recoveries in format and delete cases.
The obvious finding from this study is that the time interval of image acquisitions played a
significant role, and the longer time interval supports few chances of data recovery because the
TRIM and Garbage Collection process effects clearing residual data from the drives

Non PDF link

Edit: corrected links

tal , (edited )
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Which means that data is gone, permanently) for that data, there's no residuals to worry about like with spinny's and is in fact necessary to ensure decent lifespans.

I doubt that the firmware is doing an overwrite of TRIMmed data. Rather, I expect it's marking it as having been TRIMmed, and so can report that it's zeroed to higher layers. If a higher layer queries the firmware for its content, sure, they might get zeroes returned. But if you can modify the firmware or otherwise bypass it, you may be able to get at the underlying media.

There is also the "bad block" issue, where storage media can take blocks -- which may contain readable data -- out of use, so that higher layers cannot access them. That applies to rotational drives and it looks like SSDs do the same thing. Again, might require bypassing or modifying the firmware to get direct access. But there can be data leaked there.

I also wouldn't be terribly surprised if there is lingering information even after zeros are written to an SSD that might be recoverable if you could directly access the media, though I'm not familiar with the situation there. That is the case for rotational drives -- the drive platter itself is "analog", doesn't just store a discrete string of ones and zeroes at the physical level. I once knew a cryptographer who was working on quantifying that leakage for rotational drives.

Now, attacking some of that is a pain and probably not a concern, but there are some cases where it might be a target. I once knew a professor who used to work at the Department of Defense, and he'd talk about their disposal process for rotational drives:

  1. Drive has N random overwrites.

  2. Drive gets passed through a rock-crusher device.

  3. Remains get put in an acid bath.

I don't know what they did if Step 1 couldn't be completed due to drive failure. Maybe they were allowed to skip that step in that case.

That being said, probably most people don't have to worry about the same level of resources being aimed at them.

EDIT: Step 1 might have been a degauss rather than an overwrite. Either way, it was definitely just aiming to twiddle bits, not physically destroy the drive. I'm trying to remember a conversation from a couple decades back...

cm0002 ,

I doubt that the firmware is doing an overwrite of TRIMmed data. Rather, I expect it's marking it as having been TRIMmed, and so can report that it's zeroed to higher layers. If a higher layer queries the firmware for its content, sure, they might get zeroes returned. But if you can modify the firmware or otherwise bypass it, you may be able to get at the underlying media.

TRIM is garbage collection and is a part of the wear leveling system. The whole point of TRIM is to have the SSD only hold the charge it needs too for still in use (i.e. not deleted) data. It's the charge that damages blocks over time, so to extend lifespans it clears everything not needed. It's not overwriting data for security or anything per se, but rather just a result of its longevity processes

Now, I'm sure there are cheap no name SSD controllers out there with ineffective TRIM operations that just lie about the operation, but any controller worth its salt is gonna have proper TRIM.

There is also the "bad block" issue, where storage media can take blocks -- which may contain readable data -- out of use, so that higher layers cannot access them. That applies to rotational drives and it looks like SSDs do the same thing. Again, might require bypassing or modifying the firmware to get direct access. But there can be data leaked there.

Part of that process is to move the data to another block and release the charge to prevent further damage, it's possible the block is damaged in such a way that it won't even release the charge, but if that's the case it's incredibly unlikely to be readable.

I also wouldn't be terribly surprised if there is lingering information even after zeros are written to an SSD that might be recoverable if you could directly access the media, though I'm not familiar with the situation there. That is the case for rotational drives -- the drive platter itself is "analog", doesn't just store a discrete string of ones and zeroes at the physical level. I once knew a cryptographer who was working on quantifying that leakage for rotational drives.

Yea it's possible, but now you're in the needing x-ray machines, powerful microscopes, full clean room labs and people with extensive, specific skill sets which means $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or in other words, state level budgets range. 99.99999% of people will be fine

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

TRIM is garbage collection and is a part of the wear leveling system. The whole point of TRIM is to have the SSD only hold the charge it needs too for still in use (i.e. not deleted) data. It's the charge that damages blocks over time,

I'm pretty sure that that is not correct.

The limiting factor is the number of writes. The reason that TRIM enhances life by facilitating wear leveling is that it lets the firmware know that the block no longer has useful data, so it can be returned to the pool used for wear-leveling. Without that, the firmware doesn't know whether or not it can switch the physical block used to represent a given logical location and safely overwrite the existing contents of that new block.

cm0002 ,

The reason that TRIM enhances life by facilitating wear leveling is that it lets the firmware know that the block no longer has useful data

Ah I see the disconnect, TRIM doesn't live in the OS outside of the firmware, TRIM is part of the controller firmware and is exposed as an ATA command for the OS to utilize

The study I have linked in my original comment goes more in-depth

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Ah I see the disconnect, TRIM doesn't live in the OS outside of the firmware, TRIM is part of the controller firmware and is exposed as an ATA command for the OS to utilize

Yes, I know.

The study I have linked in my original comment goes more in-depth

I'm on a phone, and it only partly showed up.

cm0002 ,
tal , (edited )
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

I mean, I read the PDF, the problem was the viewer bogging down.

googles

This sounds like what I expected:

https://superuser.com/questions/1060831/triming-as-alternative-to-securely-erasing-a-ssd

If data security is your concern, it should be noted that neither a SECURE_ERASE nor a TRIM actually erase the flash cells. The SSD firmware keeps a list of which cells are allocated and which are not. A TRIM simply marks a cell as unallocated the same way deleting a file causes the filesystem to mark a cluster as unallocated. No attempt is made to actually erase the data. A read request from an unallocated cell simply causes the device to return 0x00 (or some other bit pattern) without actually checking the cell's contents.

There is no effective way of securely wiping an SSD. Forensics tools that can interface with the firmware directly can see the cells' contents. Also, there is more storage on the device than what is accessible from user-space. These extra cells are used in garbage collection. Garbage collection can reallocate cells on-the-fly and can still work even on a drive that is 100% full. A SECURE_ERASE may (probably does) TRIM those cells, but a blkdiscard or fstrim certainly wouldn't, since they use sector numbers to identify the areas to be TRIMmed.

The only way to securely erase an SSD is to destroy it. This is the policy of most companies in health care, banking, and government when surplussing equipment.

EDIT: I took a look at your PDF on a desktop. While it's pretty light on the specifics of how they tested that the data was present, nothing there talks about anything below the OS level. My expectation is that what they did for their test was try to do reads from the device at the OS level and see whether it returned zeroes. They aren't going to look below that. If they were interfacing with the drive at a firmware or below level, I'd expect them to have mentioned it, as it'd be a significant amount of additional work. And they don't list relevant information like model number, much less firmware revision on the drive.

barsquid ,

This is a complete digression but do you know if there is a consumer hardware that can be reliably erased? I'm trying to make something behave as an affordable HSM. If I could store a key encrypted at rest and be able to actually delete it, that would work for me.

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

This is a complete digression but do you know if there is a consumer hardware that can be reliably erased?

behave as an affordable HSM

Like, to create a hardware keystore? No, I don't, sorry. If I wanted one myself, I'd probably just buy an existing one and hope that they did things correctly. :-)

moon ,

Dang must suck being on a proprietary locked down platform you have no control over. That's literally impossible on my deGoogled android running GOS.

ProBot ,
@ProBot@lemmy.world avatar

No way! Prove it

KillingTimeItself ,

can't wait for my personally hosted, and managed hardware server to start serving me shit i never put up in the first place.

Oh wait that won't happen, because i host it, and it's mine, and i own it.

xmunk ,

merges WordPress into the apt repository for grep

watches the world burn

KillingTimeItself ,

:)

aido ,
@aido@lemmy.world avatar

Well, someone obviously didn't read past the headline: its undeleting images locally that haven't been overwritten

KillingTimeItself ,

yeah and i can't have that issue because i use a real filesystem that isn't schizophrenic, because if it was you would get dataloss

Thank fuck for nerds writing open source software. Otherwise my life would be hell.

StaySquared ,

Hm... I curiously checked my phone, deleted images/videos are still deleted and haven't resurfaced. Then again I don't mix technology with nudity. /shrug

ChaoticEntropy ,
@ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

Did you think some else's nudes might have resurfaced there...?

Soggy ,

No they're just feeling morally superior for no good reason.

whoreticulture ,

There are tons of reasons to take nude photos... you often have to send in nude photos for the beginning stages of surgery consultations.

And sexting is fun.

This comment comes across insanely judgemental of the individual, when the issue is that Apple deleting data and thus violating privacy.

StaySquared ,

Yeah.. I think I'd rather do that in person than to video record or take images of myself nude. Privacy and security is a pretty big deal to me. Hence, I don't mix technology with nudity.

whoreticulture ,

You've never been in a long distance relationship? And as I said, some people need to take nudes for medical reasons. It's not a hypothetical situation, I know multiple people who have done this.

It's fine that you have your own personal philosophy for taking nudes, but your post is coming off as judgemental of those who do.

It's not the individual's fault, it's Apple's fault for being unclear about what the delete feature is actually doing.

StaySquared ,

Hm.. I never felt a need to expose myself (using tech) to another person to feel validated or to get their (or my) rocks off or for any other reason, honestly. I'm not trying be morally superior, I'm just saying I don't expose myself with technology as a medium. In fact, I've never posted a photo of myself on any social media. I take privacy and security seriously.

Plus look at the consequences of exposing yourself to others through tech... blackmail, image-based abuse/exploitation, revenge p*rn etc..

My initial comment was simply stating that Apple's latest update hasn't undeleted any of my photos/videos in general but that then again I don't have any nude images/videos on my iphone/iCloud storage if the claim is that nude images/videos exclusively are getting undeleted.

whoreticulture ,

Ah okay. I didn't interpret this as only nudes being undeleted, so I was reading your comment in that light. Understandable.

callouscomic ,

I just want to appreciate an argument where both user names check out, considering the stances taken by the "whore" and the "square" per the names.

whoreticulture ,

🔥🔥 YES

frezik ,

It's not just nudes, though. This could happen for any deleted picture. I'm not really expecting them to zero out the file system block or anything, but this implies they're not even doing file system level deletion.

KillingTimeItself ,

i'm almost certain this is more of a cloud bug than anything. Fucking up the incredibly basic process of "hey this shit isn't real, don't look here for anything" is hilarious.

There shouldnt be a fucking excuse. Did you accidentally roll back an fs journal? No, good, because that's how you get dataloss

Buddahriffic ,

I love mixing technology with nudity. But I have also avoided this problem because I don't mix technology and Apple.

StaySquared ,

So you use a de-googled android?

dojan ,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

I think mixing tech and nudity is awesome! I love getting dickpics!

billwashere ,

You don’t mix technology and YOUR nudity 😉

StaySquared ,

haha..

antidote101 ,

As a rule, files never get deleted... They get over written. So it depends on whether that process has happened to any loose images.

Avialle ,

Surprise backup

DAMunzy ,

Oh, it's up!

dumbass ,
@dumbass@leminal.space avatar

Is it just nudes or is it all old photos?

rimjob_rainer ,

The former would be hilarious, it would mean that iOS explicitly classified those images as nudes.

StaySquared ,

Indeed. But Apple does have the tech to analyze images/videos:

Apple's CSAM detection capability is built solely to detect known CSAM images stored in iCloud Photos that have been identified by experts at NCMEC and other child safety groups.

dojan ,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

It's using hashes, no?

answersplease77 ,

which means they exported this task to some Indians overaeas.. fuck which is just worse

KillingTimeItself ,

ok so probably not, CSAM detection, specifically modern detection the kind that MS does, is based on image hashes, and how it works is that the law collects and creates the hash sets for these images, and distributes them to tech companies, who can then use them to calculate against hashes of existing photos, and if a match returns, ladies and gentleman, we got em.

Treczoks ,

Are they not happy when they got back what they thought was lost? :-)

ColdWater ,
@ColdWater@lemmy.ca avatar

I still don't get why people take pictures of themselves being nude and complained when it got leak because data breach

filcuk ,

You don't? Really?

ColdWater ,
@ColdWater@lemmy.ca avatar

I don't, I didn't even shower naked

III ,

There are dozens of us.

milicent_bystandr ,

Maybe if you turned the water temperature up.

Scrollone ,

Tobias, is that you?

whoreticulture ,

"I don't understand why people have sex and then complain when they can't get an abortion because of Roe v Wade being appealed."

This is what you sound like. Blame the system, not the individual for having a better sex life than you.

StaySquared ,

Pretty sure physical contact is far superior to... sending nudes. But if that's having a better sex life, hey good on you LOL

whoreticulture ,

The tease of getting a well-lit nude in the middle of the workday? 🧑🏻‍🍳🤌🏻💋

It's all about the antici ..... pation.

Wiitigo ,

Just the nudes. Nothing else.

Classy ,

Not true, it specifically states in the article that, for example, one user had over 300 photos reappear, "some of which were revealing". This is obviously not great but it isn't likely as scandalous as it's being made out to be.

buddascrayon ,

The joke --------->

You ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

azalty ,
@azalty@jlai.lu avatar

It was kinda wrote like a statement. People who didn’t read the article will read it as such, misinforming people

buddascrayon ,

Have you always been a pedant or is this a recent development?

azalty ,
@azalty@jlai.lu avatar

If misinformation is a minor issue to you, then I can’t do better

Classy ,

There's so much misinformation online, sure it could have been a joke but it's so easy to just be lazy, read the comment straight and move on acting like there's some kind of operation going on at Apple stealing your nudes. I don't really care if it's a joke or not, and you're not even the OP so who are you to say it's for a fact a joke?

azalty ,
@azalty@jlai.lu avatar

That was the case for me, until I decided to read the article

Darkenfolk ,

What article, it's just a link. If I can't read it here it ain't there.

We shouldn't encourage post-bot behaviour in the posters, title+summary or gtfo.

azalty ,
@azalty@jlai.lu avatar

Sarcasm?

Darkenfolk ,

Nah, I just really hate people link dumping. Why even bother posting if you can't be bothered to post something with content?

azalty ,
@azalty@jlai.lu avatar

By clicking the link, you’ll access an article with more information

Not being constantly fed with information and fact checking can also be good from time to time

It doesn’t have to be "do all the work for us or do nothing". Posters don’t owe you anything.

VirtualOdour ,

I agree, give me enough information so I know if it's worth reading the article

Glytch ,

Since we're being pedantic: the word you're looking for is "written" not "wrote".

azalty ,
@azalty@jlai.lu avatar

I don’t see where I’ve mentioned a small English mistake. I said that it was written like a statement, which could misinform people

xmunk ,

I think you may have speeded to a conclusion.

whoreticulture ,

It's scandalous regardless. The nudes just highlight the danger of this.

fritobugger2017 ,
Moorshou ,
@Moorshou@lemmy.zip avatar

Good thing I already knew Iphone wasn't private.

I mean, they make you sign in with an Icloud ID

ILikeBoobies ,

Never accepted the agreement, it constantly asks me to but works without it

Having said that, I am sure it still steals my photos because it’s close sourced

KillingTimeItself ,

damn, user ilikeboobies, is security conscious? What a time to be alive.

HelloHotel , (edited )
@HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

I dont trust that client side scanning or other system components arent going through these half deleted files

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