Toyota wants hydrogen to succeed so bad it's practically paying people to buy the Mirai…”you can get $40,000 off a 2023 Toyota Mirai Limited, a fuel-cell vehicle that retails for $66,000. When you factor in the $15,000 in free hydrogen over six years and the available 0% interest loan, the new car would run you just $11,000. “https://techcrunch.com/2024/02/28/hydrogens-real-markets/#cars#hydrogen#technology#climate#environment
@Hypx According to the International Monetary Fund global fossil fuel subsidies surged to a record $7 trillion in 2022, which is equivalent to 7.1% of global GDP. In the US around $20 billion per year. There is little of that fantasy free market in the real world & every new venture has a tipping point for profitability.
@tangledwing A claim so misleading it should be called gaslighting.
How do petrostates exist in the first place if oil cannot exist in the free market? Honestly, there is a vein of deeply anti-scientific thought among people who call themselves environmentalists.
@Hypx The existence of petrostates - most GDP from FF, is not necessarily incompatible with free market principles, they can still have private sector activity and trade. However, the dominance of the state in the oil/gas sector and the use of subsidies and other interventions distort the free market. Not always a negative. Subsidies, not always bad. They can be a way to nudge businesses, to say, improve environmental practices.
@tangledwing You're missing the point. There are very few "subsidies" as we would understand them. In reality, fossil fuels are extremely heavily taxed. So there are no market distortions like that occur with BEVs.
@Hypx Oil companies do have a tax burden or obligation, but again, the combination of tax provisions, deferrals, and subsidies often results in them paying significantly less compared to other industries.
-and the original post was just about a cool green tech car that ends up costing half as much as a new Corolla. Hydrogen fuel development and adoption would be one of the holy grails of clean energy, plus soci-economic benefits for everyone.
@tangledwing Again, this is gaslighting. Fossil fuel companies are not being propped up by governments. In reality, governments have done everything they can to destroy fossil fuels, and failed. Meanwhile, they have massively propped up BEVs. This is also failing.
Hydrogen is coming up because it is becoming obvious that the current solution isn't working. We must pursue new ideas, and skeptics are being short-sighted and are simply holding progress back.