aubeynarf ,

yeah they are selling “wireless home
internet” hard now, can’t have people using their phone hotspot for that.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

get calyx

Presi300 ,
@Presi300@lemmy.world avatar

How do they even know if you use your data as a hotspot? That's just ridiculous!

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Probably local/system services on the app when the SIM is activated (like it's with sim locked phones)

pup_atlas ,

Nope, it’s either inspecting the TTL of packets coming from your phone (unless you have a VERY custom setup, the TTL from devices other than your phone will be very different), or it’s deep packet inspection. I tried to trick t-mobile last year into giving me home internet on a phone sim, so I did a whack ton of research.

Cl1nk ,

Did you find a way to avoid detection?

iliketurtles ,

On US Mobile (Verizon) using a VPN on my phone when tethering seems to bypass detection. At least the meter on the dashboard says I've used 0gb hotspot.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Makes you wonder what else they know about what you're doing online.

rab ,

Read permanent record by snowden

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

He wrote that 5 years ago (admittedly I have yet to read it), so who knows what they've been able to do since then than he hadn't even thought of.

rab ,

It's still very relevant and one of the most mind blowing things I've ever read

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Oh I'm sure it's still relevant, I'm saying things have probably gotten even worse.

rab ,

Well if you ever read it you'll wonder how it can even get any worse haha

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It can always get worse. Any time someone says it can't get any worse, it does.

I was told abortion restrictions couldn't get any worse too. Then they started removing rape exceptions.

UckyBon ,

Monitoring DNS requests to their own servers.

dsco ,

They look at the TTL of the incoming packets. This can be modified in the windows registry.

LemmyKnowsBest ,

Thank you for putting this into words. Verizon does the same thing to me, I've been on the same plan for four or five years, and I haven't been able to articulate it the way you did. Thank you for explaining what's happening.

psion1369 ,

I used to root my phone and then could use the hotspot without my provider knowing.

madcaesar ,

wHy dOeS aNyOnE nEeD rOoT??? - morons replying to me when I tell them rooting our phones is essential to have FULL control over it.

Raiderkev ,

It's because at&t also sells home Internet. If you have unlimited hotspot, then you wouldn't want that sweet sweet DSL or whatever shit Internet ATT sells

Praetorian ,

Try plugging your phone on via the USB instead of a WiFi hotspot. It may not detect it as a hotspot.

justinthegeek ,

Doesn't matter, it still gets flagged as hotspot traffic.

cyberpunk007 ,

I wonder if a VPN would make any difference? I have tasker set up to kick on wireguard any time I leave my wifi network. They'd only see my WG port.

justinthegeek ,

It hasn’t made a difference for me, I’m on Verizon if that matters. I’ve got Wireguard set to always on and all traffic but I still get the usage notifications. IIRC there’s a separate apn for any traffic that goes through the hotspot or tethering connection and that’s how it’s monitored. The traffic will be encrypted, but they can still see it.

cyberpunk007 ,

Well that sucks. I wonder if there a way around it if you're rooted

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

Att et al keeps throwing around the word 'unlimited'. I actually had a conversation with Verizon, before I dropped them, and actually used this exact quote to the guy...

https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/6f0154f5-c257-4420-b1dd-204d305be5a0.webm

He was like, "princess bride. Nice. But, yeah, I have to read the script."

Dasus ,

Most importantly... did you do the accent?

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

Hahaha! A light version of it. I already have a light accent, so I emphasized it some, but I didn't want to offend haha

LemmyKnowsBest ,

If I had been your Verizon representative on the phone at that moment, I would've had a hearty chuckle then rewarded you everything free for the rest of your life. Unlimited. And I'd really mean it this time. Unlimited.

popemichael ,
@popemichael@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Companies even do this if you have a 5g modem.

There is a 2 hour window at the end of the month in which I am miserable.

I'm at the tip of the US's Wang and have zero access to wired internet, so I am stuck. 😞

bonn2 ,

I was in the same situation, but luckily, Starlink became available. Not as good as a wire, and rather expensive, but damn is it a night and day difference.

LaFinlandia , (edited )
@LaFinlandia@sopuli.xyz avatar

I know this is going to sound like an ad. Visible has unlimited 5G, and 5Mbps* hotspot, for $25/mo. It's owned by Verizon.

p1mrx ,

Worth noting: "Visible includes mobile hotspot with unlimited data at speeds up to 5Mbps."

AA5B ,

Wow, the 5g had me excited there for a moment

phoneymouse ,

Yeah if you pay for the $45/plan it’s 10Mbps speed

Maggoty ,

Well that's because, fuck you pay me those are special data packets.

skuzz ,

Ahahaha, are you in marketing?

Maggoty ,

No, I'm far worse. I studied politics in college.

skuzz ,

My condolences.

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

Plug it in via USB cable, shouldn't register as a hotspot then. At least that's how it works on linux, IDK about other OS.

skuzz ,

Carriers in the US configure phones so that the tethering APN is always used for tethering specifically over all interfaces, the traffic is also tagged with a different TTL. They also do some malarkey with deep packet inspection (in case you figure out how to modify the APN) to identify if a computer is using the connection (like the initial phone home Windows and Mac both do to determine the type/quality of Internet connection they are connected to.)

All of this one can work around, but it becomes an annoying game of cat and also cat, and then if the carrier "decides" you violated the "spirit" of their TOS, they'll cancel your plan and take your number away.

CaptainHowdy ,
@CaptainHowdy@lemm.ee avatar

This is only possible if you get your phone from the carrier, right? They wouldn't be able to differentiate if you were using an unlocked phone you got from Google or Amazon?

skuzz ,

They force configs on unlocked phones as well, or just don't "certify" them and refuse to let them work. AT&T will go the extra step of locking you out of your SIM card until you call them. The other two are pretty passive about it and your phone just doesn't work right until you put the SIM back in a phone they "like".

edgesmash ,

... but it becomes an annoying game of cat ND also cat...

Hello, The Monarch: https://y.yarn.co/d40afa8f-93a1-4a74-bd4b-328c3bcc8d00_text.gif

skuzz ,

It's a really weird and very American problem. Our home broadband either doesn't exist or is really expensive in any given market, and tends to have clauses, conditions, etc. Like Comcrap limiting people to 1TB/mon (very easy to burn through quickly by just watching some television programs) unless they pay more for "unlimited". People, as taught by Capitalism, hunt for the best deals. Paying one bill instead of two saves money. Some have light enough home Internet requirements that they don't need expensive home broadband.

Then the companies get pissed that we're doing what we are supposed to do, find the best deal for our needs, so they set up false gates to make sure we follow the path they want us to follow. Then they pay off the regulatory agencies to allow terms like "unlimited" mean not unlimited, 3G HSPA+ being known as 4G. 4G being known as LTE, 4GLTE or 5Ge. 5G being known as 5G, 5G+, 5GUW, 5GUC, (even though, with the exception of T-Mobile in many markets, that 5G will actually be non-standalone and anchored to an LTE packet core, not 5G SA) and all the other damn arbitrary marketing buzzwords. All of which really mean nothing because the 5G spec allows a carrier to flip on the 5G availability flag on a phone even if 5G doesn't exist in your market.

Most of this, AT&T is the biggest perpetrator of by far. Especially the lying about 5G.

The rules are all made up, nothing is real. Time for the arbitrary monthly bill increase for no reason! Pay up, chump!

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yep, lack of broadband in this AirBnB I'm staying in is the only reason I was using it as a hotspot in the first place. The speed here is about the speed they'd throttle it at. I kind of had to fork over the $15 or deal with slow internet one way or the other.

skuzz ,

It always blows my mind going to a rental and the rental has no or lacking Internet. Yes, I'm probably on vacation, but it's the future and life requires a few megabits. Years back I made it standard procedure to prep some kind of mobile broadband for my destination (buying a month of prepaid for a hotspot or whatever) fully expecting it to just always suck, it's annoying that this is still a necessary procedure in 2024.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Unfortunately, I didn't pick it. My mother is paying. And when I asked my mother if she looked to see on the AirBnB ad if this place had high speed internet, she said, "other ads did, but this one didn't." Sigh.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

I still feel like I should be able to sue AT&T for claiming my hotspot is "unlimited," but after 15 gb it drops to double digit kbps. Seems like that's a pretty hard limit

skuzz ,

Especially given:

  • Limited to 15GB
  • Then limited to 128kbps

The 15GB is going to be variable based on the link speed available. If full 5G, that can be erased with 15 speed tests in a few minutes.

From there, it's 128kbps * 3600 (to hours) * 24 (to days) * 30 (to month) = 331,776,000 kilobits -> 41.472GB + the original 15GB -> 56.472GB is the limit each month for "unlimited", roughly. A hard limited number.

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

And some douchebag could come in and say "um, actually, it's always going to be limited because the internet speed isn't infinite" as if the 3TB my mobile data is capable of downloading at full speed is at all comparable to the 0.05TB I can get after they rate limit me

IamAnonymous ,

It’s to stop people from abusing unlimited data on their cellphone for all their WiFi devices at home. I know a person who did not have WiFi at home and only used their cellphone data.
You are using more than a typical cellphone user and also you are cutting them from an opportunity to sell you a WiFi plan for your home.
It’s annoying, but as I understand it, this is the reason.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The concept of abusing unlimited data makes no sense.

IamAnonymous , (edited )

It’s unlimited data for your phone and not for all the devices you can connect to.
I agree with your sentiment. Just trying to point what the companies have in their ToS. I will be glad to hotspot to all my devices from my phone and not pay for WiFi.

whoreticulture ,

This might not apply everywhere, but I live in a rural area and actually most of my Internet used is through cell networks. When there are a lot of people in the area for some reason, I'm much more likely to lose service completely for web and calls.

I don't think that a reliable network is the reason why communications companies are limiting people's data, I think they're doing it for profit, but it could be a rationale to do so. It's not unreasonable to think that there can't be "unlimited" anything without some kind of impact.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

But isn't limiting an unlimited service a form of false advertising? I'm sure they'd argue that a ToS was signed, but I don't know that you can legally bind people to accept a false advertisement.

whoreticulture ,

Yeah you don't have to make that point to me. I'm just saying there could be a legitimate reason to want to make service limits. Obviously, if they really wanted to limit service to prevent network outages, I wouldn't be getting network outages 😂😭

PriorityMotif ,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

"all you can eat"

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

You are using more than a typical cell phone user

But it still costs the ISP effectively nothing to send those 1s and 0s. This is like complaining about someone having a bunch of fans on because they're using more air than the average person.

IamAnonymous ,

I never implied that. Ask the ISP why they have separate hotspot / tablet / watch plans.

bartolomeo ,

I think companies call that "innovation" these days.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Anything that makes more profits is "innovation."

If they could profit from rape, they'd do so and call it innovative.

Tlaloc_Temporal ,

Legislation basically specifing such has been passed for some reason, and I bet that reason is money.

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