DEBATE: Should Muslims vote for Joe Biden in November? ( zeteo.com )

ShimmeringKoi , 16 days ago

Hahahahaha

Amoxtli , 16 days ago

Joe Biden is an admitted non-Jew Zionist. Should a Muslim vote for a Zionist? That is a more accurate question.

• 'I am a Zionist': How Joe Biden's lifelong bond with Israel shapes war policy | Reuters - https://www.reuters.com/world/us/i-am-zionist-how-joe-bidens-lifelong-bond-with-israel-shapes-war-policy-2023-10-21/

TBi , 17 days ago

Vote for Biden or vote for the guy who set up Muslim bans…

Or don’t vote which helps the guy who wanted Muslim bans…

Hard choice…

CommunistCuddlefish , 17 days ago

Obviously not. Voting for Genocide Joe is scabbing for genocide.

Chozo , 17 days ago

Meanwhile, Biden's opposition literally attempted to ban Muslims from entering the country during his previous stint.

juicy , 17 days ago

So what? Why should that even enter the conversation when we're talking about an active GENOCIDE?

Chozo , 17 days ago

People can have more than one thing they consider important, you know. "This one thing that matters to me is happening, no other events are relevant" is a poor mindset, IMO.

Besides, would Trump be handling Israel any better than Biden? Does he have some soft spot for Gaza that we're all unaware of? Because I'm pretty sure he's been sucking Netanyahu's dick for years already, too.

AdlachGyfiawn , 17 days ago

When that one thing is a genocide, I think it's pretty fair to focus on. We're not talking about our candidate's favorite flavor of ice cream.

If neither candidate will stop the genocide, it's our responsibility to refuse both candidates. Voting for Hindenburg didn't stop the Holocaust.

Chozo , 17 days ago

If neither candidate will stop the genocide, it's our responsibility to refuse both candidates.

Okay, well reality doesn't really afford us this option, as much as we'd like it. We can piss and moan all day about what we should do, but that's a separate discussion from what we can do. And what we can do is make our votes be as impactful as possible with the options we have available.

AdlachGyfiawn , 16 days ago (edited 16 days ago)

You can do much more than vote. There's people getting beat to shit by cops all over the country proving it.

This whole 'you have a moral obligation to vote for 99% Hitler' thing is pretty tired, as the logical conclusion of that line of reasoning is that you should vote for Hitler if anyone worse than Hitler is on the ballot.

Chozo , 16 days ago

You can do much more than vote.

Right, but this is specifically about the election, where the one and only thing you can do is vote. At the end of the day, we're all still looking at the same two options on the ballot, that part isn't changing.

AdlachGyfiawn , 16 days ago

All appearances to the contrary, I am going to vote. I'm voting for the PSL candidate, Claudia de la Cruz, because she does not support genocide.

Chozo , 16 days ago

Oh, you believe in the viability of a third party vote in 2024. Sorry, I thought I was taking to a serious person, my bad.

AdlachGyfiawn , 16 days ago

Yes, I refuse to vote for genocide. No, I'm not under the impression de la Cruz will win the presidency.

You do not have the moral high ground here, friend, and trying to talk down to people will not help you reclaim it.

Chozo , 16 days ago

I'm not giving Trump an advantage by throwing away my vote, so I'd argue that I do have a moral high ground in this case. By (effectively) not voting, you're demonstrating that you wanna see how Trump will handle Israel, instead. That's not a concession I'm willing to make, myself.

AdlachGyfiawn , 16 days ago (edited 16 days ago)

Argue all you want: you're here saying you're going to vote for a genocide and scolding others for refusing. If you want to call that moral, I guess I can't stop you.

Chozo , 16 days ago

I do speak out against it, I'm not sure why you assume I wouldn't. However, my options at the polls remain: Vote Trump, and help Trump suck Bibi's dick, vote Biden and help Biden suck Bibi's dick, or not vote/vote third party and go back to helping Trump suck Bibi's dick.

No matter what, the US's stance on Israel is still going to be shit and we'll continue supporting their genocide. But I'm gonna go with the guy who at least shows some resistance to Israel (however pitiful it may be).

This isn't the kind of year to be goofing around with your vote for the sake of sending a message because, in case you haven't noticed, there's a fuckin genocide happening right now and Trump would be the worst possible choice for handling a genocide. Save the third party push for a time when it actually has a chance; active genocides are not that time, and it's incredibly selfish to hold your values over the actual victims of genocide.

You can vote how you want, I can't change that. But just know that by voting third party this year, you're effectively doing the most possible damage to Gaza, in the name of showing how much you support them. I dunno how the binding irony of it hasn't already snapped you back to reality yet.

AdlachGyfiawn , 16 days ago (edited 16 days ago)

Palestinians aren't asking you to vote for Biden, you might notice. Arab Americans are voting for him in significantly lower numbers, in fact. If you want to pretend like you care about victims, maybe listen to them.

And, for what it's worth, a vote for Biden is a vote for Biden. He doesn't care if you scold him as long as you vote for him. Any 'activism' you engage in ultimately means nothing if you give him your vote at the end of the day.

And really, please quit with the 'not voting is a vote for Trump' thing. It's a vote for Trump as much as it's a vote for Biden—which is to say, it helps neither. The implicit assumption under saying it helps Trump is that my vote belongs rightfully to Biden.

frauddogg , 16 days ago

Ok collaborator

TeddyKila , 17 days ago

Abdullah Hammoud and Keith Ellison

yeah i don't think there's anything of value to be gained from watching this

card797 , 17 days ago

Should the vote for Donald Trump?

jkrtn , 17 days ago

He seems like a good choice if they want to be banned from the country or for Israel to "finish the job."

mipadaitu , 17 days ago

Should group X vote for Biden in November? Yes, no matter which group you are in, you will be better off with Biden.

There are zero groups that will actually be better with trump. There are only small groups of people who will feel better when watching people be worse off then them.

BrikoX OP , 17 days ago

This mindset is the reason Democrats keep loosing. Saying I'm better than the alternative, only can work so many times. Most people are aware that Biden would be better than the alternative on all issues, but not showing up to vote, is the only way in the broken American political system to show that you had enough with the bullshit.

Democrats act like it's your duty to protect their position in power, even when they actively refuse to listen to what you want. They stab you in the back time and time again, and then they go on national television and say that YOU are responsible for protecting the democracy. How about they do something to protect the democracy?

Gradually_Adjusting , 17 days ago (edited 17 days ago)

Voting strategically is not an act of heroism any more than wiping your ass is. It's the bare minimum that you do when things are basically okay.

The real question you should be asking is "should I tolerate the situation in America as it exists?" If you're not happy with Trump or Biden, the answer is no. End of story.

Strike is on the table. A large general strike would be needed to force reforms. Get specific and organize. Be sure to include voting systems in your thinking.

But don't forget to attend to the basics while you're at it. There's no realistic third alternative in this voting system. Many more people will die under Trump, and you won't be the one picking.

jkrtn , 17 days ago

I would love to see a massive general strike.

adhdplantdev , 17 days ago

Yeah not showing up to vote would certainly show the controlling Elites what is. Also goes nicely with that 30% of Americans that don't vote no matter what. If you're going to insist on idiotic plans at least vote third parties so you know your vote actually counts as a statistic of a locally grumpy voter.
On the bright side if you guys get your way and Trump does get elected it could make the material circumstances bad enough that we could see a real upheaval in American society that will make things significantly worse and then make things significantly better.

atzanteol , 17 days ago

This mindset is the reason Democrats keep loosing. Saying I’m better than the alternative, only can work so many times.

Actively NOT voting for somebody who is "less bad" than the other guy is an act of stupidity I can never comprehend.

jkrtn , 17 days ago

Yeah, that's cool, then, let's get this "I'll be a dictator on day one" insurrectionist back in there. You won't have to worry about another vote after that. That'll show those Dems.

frauddogg , 16 days ago (edited 16 days ago)

I genuinely don't care if Amerika perpetuates. I think I'd actually rather it didn't, as a matter of fact. At this point, I'd rather see you crash, burn, and suffer than actively assist you; and you only have your smug-assed self and those like you to thank for it. When I say 'death to Amerika', I mean it; and I probably wouldn't if you people could ever be trusted to vote for something that isn't genocidal capitalism.

I don't align with genociders. I don't align with fascists. You, Trump, Biden, and everyone who ups either of them can all die in the same trench for all I care.

jkrtn , 16 days ago

Little fascists like you who have the privilege to think you won't be affected by a collapsing America and enjoy watching people suffer. Meanwhile millions of my neighbors would be losing their rights and their lives for being the wrong gender, sexuality, or color. Extremely privileged and sick to be excited about that like you are.

frauddogg , 16 days ago (edited 16 days ago)

How is it 'fascist' to pine for the death of a fascist nation and all of its collaborators? Explain that to me. I'll bet you can't; you're politically ignorant enough to just throw words out there. Did someone get their first word-a-day calendar? Or is this just your new cable news trough-induced echolalia acting up?

You and your blood-soaked hands don't deserve my solidarity. My solidarity is saved explicitly for the colonized, who are not of Turtle Island, but are of their own distinct nomenclature; one that I pray grows out of the ashes that the settler country called Amerika will become.

I spit on you and all of your fake, hypocritical appeals to minority groups you have sold, are selling, and will sell up the river again, cracker. See, I know FOR A FACT that I'll be affected by it too. Difference is, I consider it a worthy price to pay to watch the settlers go too. If I can't have true liberation, if the arc of history doesn't run long enough for my people to know what that feels like? I'll settle for y'all's suffering.

As one of my favorite theorists said, "it's the ballot, or the bullet."

jkrtn , 16 days ago

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frauddogg , 16 days ago

Mmmh, so it is echolalia. You don't know the first word of the definition of 'fascism'; or what, do you want me to believe the Soviets that ended the Third Reich were fascist too for opposing fascism? Enjoy your country's collapse, cracker.

jkrtn , 16 days ago

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the moderator]

frauddogg , 16 days ago

Amerika didn't end shit; they joined the war late because of Japan, peacocked around the Atlantic theatre like they were doing shit, war crimed Japan twice by genociding civilians, and then proceeded to save a handful of the high-ranking nazis who didn't flee to South America from the gallows via Operation Paperclip. You're as historically illiterate as you are politically.

https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/c527b7f8-1428-48ed-b04c-6db7814af71d.jpeg

Crikeste , 16 days ago

It’s the America YOU want. You’re the complacent one who doesn’t want change. You’re the one who says we have to vote for the status quo. You’re the one that says we can’t change. You’re the one that says we have to further our genocide, otherwise further our genocide.

You are advocating for an America where you have no choices. Fuck, we’re already there.

glacier , 17 days ago

Democrats aren't losing, they've over performed in just about every election since 2020. The party has grown more left wing in recent years but obviously work still needs to be done. Virtually every progressive in government will endorse Biden for reelection. There was no significant primary challenge against him.

If you don't vote you aren't participating in an election where you can influence the outcome. In reality the statement you make by sitting out is that you don't care what happens.

There are valid criticisms you could make of Biden especially over how he has handled the Gaza war. But pretending that you're enlightened by not voting and effectively helping Trump is not an effective strategy in the long term.

juicy , 17 days ago

Democrats aren't losing...

Sleep walk over that cliff, my friend

TheAnonymouseJoker , 16 days ago

Just like that, liberal Zionist... keep walking. Keep that blindfold on, and say heil Biden, heil democRATs.

glacier , 16 days ago (edited 16 days ago)

Your comment provides no productive insight or refutation of anything I mentioned. You look like a fool by creating a straw man of my position.

TheAnonymouseJoker , 16 days ago

You are voooting for Biden, I think that is enough.

WolfLink , 17 days ago

If you’ve got a better plan I’m all ears, but I’ve never seen any actual alternative proposed.

billgamesh , 16 days ago

www.marxists.org/english-mobiles.htm

VoterFrog , 16 days ago

but not showing up to vote, is the only way in the broken American political system to show that you had enough with the bullshit.

Lmao what? No it's not. It's the ultimate act of capitulation. It says nothing more than "Do what ever you want to me, I don't care"

PowerCrazy , 16 days ago

You should be showing up to vote, just not for the two parties of capital.

frauddogg , 16 days ago

Black folk won't be; he's still funding the 1033 Program to keep PDs across the country slabbing us out with military surplus and wants a Cop City in every state-- of which there's 61 protestors against Atlanta Cop City still facing RICO charges that your peckerwood president still hasn't pardoned. Ain't it crazy that not one Jan 6th rioter got hit with RICO, though?

You will not cudgel support for genocidal crackers-- especially not when said genocidal cracker is making prison slaves everywhere he can where he's not just leaving corpses out to cool under the sun-- out of us.

PowerCrazy , 16 days ago

Very brave of you when you get to vote for Hitler (D) instead of Hitler (R). Now why did Hitler (D) become the nominee? Well after numerous elections where the previous (D) president turned the migrant camps on the southern border into full-blown death camps, rather then not voting for more death-camps, liberals like you chose to vote for "fewer" death camps because it was more pragmatic.