I have never seen this actually happen and I have a lot of experience with gaming with randos (I'm old and I also started a gaming club in college that had over 75 members with at least 15 of them being female). I've been playing MTG and D&D at local shops for decades now and I've never once seen other dudes simping or fighting over a girl at the table.
Not saying it can't happen, nerds are nerds and do often lack social skills. But from my experience (and from what I've heard from my female gamer friends), this has got to be a rare situation.
Same here, although I've only been playing for like 10 years. Sure there are some younger thirsty guys but not every guy is interested in relationships, likes women, or is single. More often than not it's just people being chill and playing.
I always have to remind myself that I was introduced to and raised in nerddom from my godmother. Everything was through the lens of her curated tastes.
So when I hit puberty later in life all the deranged horniness suddenly clicked in me as MY problem since for me it wasn't normalized. Playing D&D and MMOs just didn't have that foundation, so I could compare.
Thanks godmother for keeping me somewhat normal. I've been often alienated from gamers due to my application of basic respect and sometimes just plain apathy towards women.
I'm done with the bars and their drunks, and the apps with the spying, out of school, and don't date coworkers, the advice given to me every time I complain about the fact that there are no other "third places" to meet women romantically 100% of the time is "get a hobby." Well, see above. There is no place, women do not want to be talked to anywhere but the bar or apps which ime have been bad places to find long-term companionship.
Can we do something about this? Can we maybe start "bars" where the focus isn't alcohol but it is socially acceptable to say "hey I think you're cute wanna go get some damn coffee?"
I'm with you brother, there's not one place within 100 miles of me that you can just sit and drink coffee and have a gay old time. There's about 30 of them.
Ah, but can you profess burgeoning romantic interest in your fellow patrons at those or are we back at the original "no that isn't appropriate to ask out a woman just trying to enjoy her coffee, either?"
At the 30 coffee shops near me it doesn't exactly seem encouraged, but if you insist, I'm willing to try. Even makes "can I buy you a coffee" easier since we're already there assuming it is appropriate.
Ehh not buying that. By your logic I can just take what I want. Pretty sure that's called "crime" as it is against the "rules."
But I'll play along: Sure, and I've decided that as a rule I'd like to not be considered creepy, and as such am attempting to ask people out in a venue that won't make women uncomfortable or scared or whatever other negative attributes one pins on those seeking romantic partnerships outside of tinder or the liquor hut.
Sure, I could throw caution to the wind, say fuck it, be scared, think I'm creepy, eventually someone will get coffee with me," and it frankly seems like I'm at this last resort, so I may start, but I will feel skeevy when some girl is obviously like "I'm just trying to enjoy my work/the gym/hobbies/the store/coffee shop/school/park/etc."
I guess you may be right though at the end of the day, fuck em, a dude gotta eat. Them having negative feelings about it is a them problem I spose.
I think you are overthinking it way too much. I'm just talking about the social norms. Who said anything about committing crimes??? Did you think I was talking about breaking the law? Wtf? You trying to grab a tit while you say hey? Just say what's up and if she doesn't bite, go to the next one. Don't get discouraged, it's all about getting out there and practicing but it sounds like you may have some social insecurities that need to be addressed first... playbooiiii LOL
Is what I was making a joke about. There are, in fact, "rules," being the crux of the joke.
But no I mean the fact that supposedly no woman wants men to say what's up anywhere but the bar, which I do not frequent, or the dating apps, which are spyware.
So is the bar "a place other than the bar or dating apps" though? You see my conundrum. Must I start drinking again simply to find a partner? Sobriety (well, weed, but whatever) is a married man's game?
It would be a lot easier if you drank casually id say but I'm assuming you would probably want a SO that doesn't drink as well. There was an organization near me that did all kinds of kayaking, hiking, theme parks, restaurants, tours just for singles called 'events and adventures' or excursions or something like that and a friend of mine had some luck with meeting his wife there. Maybe you could try if you are in the US I'm sure every major city has something like that
say fuck it, be scared, think I’m creepy, eventually someone will get coffee with me
I mean no but kinda. One thing that's practically always going to be the case is that you're physically intimidating, and you should never shirk away from acknowledging that, and be comfortable with it. The trick is to look like a roller-coaster: Intimidating, sure, but it's not going to throw you around unless you get on and when you do, you'll still be safe.
It is! And it worked great for me and my partner! We both got tired of the apps, and neither of us are big socialites, and felt like speed dating was a long-shot, but after meeting at speed dating, we went on a coffee date (so we could talk for more then the 7 minutes they gave us at speed dating), and everything just felt right! I won't say it was love at first sight, but within the year we'd moved in together, and couldn't be happier with each other. Just search online for speed dating in whatever decent-sized city you're in or near, and you'll probably find something!
At least four years ago (or whenever right before Covid started. I'm so bad with time) my 25 year old cousin in law went to a string of speed dating events. They still exist. Heck. I just duckduckgo'd "my state speed dating" and in about twenty seconds found ten within a 30 minute drive over the next month.
I'm a good looking, personable guy, so my experience is certainly biased by that. Also coming from someone from the us.
But I've found you can approach women in most places. The thing is to just not be creepy about it, and learn how to pick up on cues that she is not interested or uncomfortable. And once "no" has been established, still treating them the way you had before.
If, like described in the geentext, you're claiming you own someone, or you're fighting with friends over it when noone is even dating anyone, the problem is not with approaching the woman.
Frankly, same, with the difference that I've been around women both irl and online who complain about it constantly, so since I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable I stopped. Seems to be around the time the apps came out that it stopped being socially acceptable ime, though I'm not sure that's the cause.
with the difference that I’ve been around women both irl and online who complain about it constantly,
You mean you've been around women who felt comfortable complaining about it around you. Which likely means that they don't think of you as a creep, and now you think of yourself as one...
The bad apples won't care they're going to continue to creep, the men you're comfortable with get scared off. Please, for everyone's sake, both genders and everything in-between and laterally, start to actually talk about how the young'uns are supposed to continue the human race because they sure as fuck don't seem to have an idea. A mere 20 years ago we could sit in mixed company laughing and groaning during an impromptu "everyone's best and worst pickup line" contest, that levity among friends. Levity is serious business re-learn it.
A mere 20 years ago we could sit in mixed company laughing and groaning during an impromptu “everyone’s best and worst pickup line” contest, that levity among friends. Levity is serious business re-learn it.
You still can. The discourse is because a large chunk of the male population doesn't understand how to do that without being creeps. Don't be a creep and women will like being around you
How large is the chunk that doesn't dare do it because they think their behaviour would be considered creepy, even though they'd do perfectly fine? Because that was the case I was replying to, not the overall situation.
If gals want to keep up the overall "don't talk to me if I haven't talked to you first" approach, fine, but then y'all gotta start being more proactive with your own pick up skills. And starting pick up line contests yourselves in suitable company, instead of letting decent guys sit there, coming to believe any muscle they move in your presence to be an offence. Thinking they can't show themselves they start to hide themselves, now they can't be read properly any more, their intentions might very well still be pure but because something is hidden well anything could be hidden there, and now you've got an actual creep on your hands.
Tbh some of the complaining was about pretty innocuous stuff, like not pushy or anything (well of course I wasn't there but sometimes the stories just sound like "normal shooting your shot" stuff. And they likely trust me because I haven't tried asking them out, at least in part. If I did I bet that'd change right quick haha.
My friends have mostly moved, the ones that are still here we chill when we can but we're all adults with lives and known each other for years, not many new faces usually.
It can be a little bit of a pain making new friends as an adult, but it's totally doable. If you make yourself available you'll find em. I found what works for me (30s dude) is to just ask. A friend complaining about having to go to a cousin's wedding? Just ask if you can join and try to make it fun. Then just start listening to conversations and joining in. Doing that I met one guy who does music production on the side for local bands and because of one comment we got talking about AI (something I've done some small work with) and how I thought it would impact him in the near future. He reached out through a mutual acquaintance to get my number and is planning to now invite me to his wedding next year.
I've got more examples but feel I'm rambling. My friend group had majorly shrunk when I moved two ish years ago and I just went through it. Even adults with kids like friends and can become good ones.
I’ve heard of a club in my country where you put on a colored bracelet based on whether or not are you looking for a partner. Seemed like a cool idea but I think it didn’t catch on.
Try searching for "Traffic Light Party" or "Stop Light Party". Bars/clubs don't usually do it as a continual thing now but some still host them as special events. Heck, if you can find a place that has done it in the past you could always just ask them if they've thought about doing another.
There is no place, women do not want to be talked to anywhere but the bar or apps which ime have been bad places to find long-term companionship.
Come the fuck on. The rules have been the same from the dawn of time.
#1 Be Attractive
#2 Don't be unattractive
You'll hear shit on the internet all the time about how women don't want to be approached, don't want to be hit on, don't want anyone to flirt with them... but it's all bullshit because the person saying it is an INDIVIDUAL. It's right for them but it isn't right for all women. I promise, women date men all the time!
It doesn't matter that they get all the upvotes in the world from all the white knights and other women who are sick of the attention. That's fine. Don't harass women who shut you down and you can freely ignore the loud voices on the internet.
Since forever in western society, Men have to generally try to make the first move - even if it's just asking a woman out for coffee - and based on the response you either move on or keep trying. It's literally that simple. It's also mostly a numbers game... but the be attractive thing is no joke. Don't be an asshole. Don't be a slob. Learn how to cook and do chores and keep your place clean... if you don't have a place, bust your ass until you get to a point where you can get one.
All the tropes where women say they don't date anyone at xyz is bullshit beyond the individual level. If someone finds you attractive and they want to date you they are going to give positive body language and positive answers to the things that would escalate towards that goal if they really want you. If they don't, they just don't want you, try someone else.
If you're getting angry about women not wanting you and it makes your blood boil and you think you deserve something... you are ignoring rule #1 and rule #2, quit being a fucking asshole.
You can't prove that! Until I see evidence this is all conjecture! Hell for all I know all those supposed women who date those men met them in said bars or apps!
Lol kidding. I know, I have even dated a few myself, buuuut I did indeed meet them all in bars (or school.) I sorta was drinking way too much and spending way too much money though, and unfortunately covid happened, inflation went tits up, I couldn't bar then because quarantine and I can't really bar much now because my local grocer has decided all my money is his, besides the whole "drinking like 1 drink instead of 15+" thing, and I've kind of become disillusioned with that whole scene. The girl I was dating at the start of quarantine was even worse than me, like "a bottle of vodka a night" bad, and frankly I'd just like maybe something a little different, and even besides her, the four previous I also met at a bar, and they were also not much better off (though the last one was the worst by a mile the rest were just like "me then" not "me now.")
Don't be an asshole. Don't be a slob. Learn how to cook and do chores and keep your place clean... if you don't have a place, bust your ass until you get to a point where you can get one.
Only when I need to; I'm clean and shower I swear, I'm just a punk, the vest is just well seasoned; own my house (well...the bank does, for now, but whatever).
give positive body language
Oh did I mention I literally have a diagnosed "learning disability" that basically amounts to "this fucking moron misses a lot of social cues?" Lol 'cause that is kinda a thing.
No work because I like my job and don't wish to cause any possible issues with it. Y'know, like if it doesn't work out or whatever, I'd just like to avoid the possibility for awkwardness entirely.
I mean I'm not entirely ruling it out, shipping has fairly high turnover, so maybe we'll hire a single person at some point and we vibe, and maybe she decides not to stick around, and I see if she wants to chill "now that she's leaving and we can't see each other here anymore," but that's a lot of "ifs" lol. I mean at the moment there's just flat out no options at my work unless I want to try and cause a divorce lol.
I used to date at work sometimes back in my restaurant days, but that's just what it is. I have considered picking up a little side waiting gig though just to try and meet someone single, then I can be the one who quits if it gets weird, and pick up some cash for the dates on the way. Working too much OT for that one right now though but I have it in my back pocket.
OH and I'm not angry at women for not wanting to be hit on anywhere, I'm just advocating for the creation (or someone tell me about some if they exist pls) of a place where it is ok. Another poster has stuff like "singles hikes" in their area, that is kinda what I'm looking for. Frankly we just need more "third places" because the old ones are all dead except bars and church, is basically my complaint here.
Though as you say "the complaints are individuals, shoot your shot." Like they said to Shooter McGavin in Happy Gilmore, I guess I'll just have to "play it where it lies" even if that is on a giant guy's foot, or at the grocery store or a hobby like this post.
The things is, yeah, get a hobby. Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range. Foster a sincere, genuine interest in that hobby and don't treat it like a meat market. Get to know people, and make friends.
Also, while you're at it, get in shape; lift weights, do cardio, watch your macros. Take daily showers, and wear clean clothes every single day. Clean up your space at home, and keep it that way. Work on yourself, and make yourself a person that you would want to date if someone didn't know anything about you or your personality (because "nice" isn't a personality).
There's nothing wrong with dating at work per se, but you need to be very, very careful because it's easy to quickly go from light flirting to "hostile work environment", and I've known more than a few people that didn't understand the difference. If you're a supervisor, you should absolutely not, under any circumstances, date or attempt to date anyone directly below you on the org chart.
Yeah, I have some hobbies. One is D&D. See OOP. Pretty sure she's complaining about me (kidding, which I really wish I didn't have to specify lol but I do.)
I'm not exactly in shape but I'm not exactly out of it either, I'm kinds standing in shape's doorway letting all the AC out. Supposedly dad bods are in however. I don't use macros I use linux (again, jk.) I do take showers nightly which oughta be close enough and jeans don't get dirty enough to change every day, but the rest I do. Alright you got me, I have cat toys and laundry on my floor. I've seen worse though, and from women at that! I already am fairly up my own ass, I think I'm pretty fuckin' neat, the issue is where can I talk to people (just something as simple as "hey I think you're cool, you seeing anyone? Wanna drink some coffee?") other than an app or bar?
There's nothing wrong with dating at work per se, but you need to be very, very careful because it's easy to quickly go from light flirting to "hostile work environment", and I've known more than a few people that didn't understand the difference.
Not a supervisor, but yeah it just seems like a whole can of worms I'd rather leave closed. Back in the restaurant days it was actively encouraged but this place is different. Not "corporate" but still not full of cool degenerates like my old haunts. Oh and the only woman there even near my age is married to a guy who also works there, so they'd have to hire someone or those two would have to divorce (and even then...)
I have thought about picking up a bullshit 1-2 days a week waiting shift literally just to meet women who work there, (not specific like I'm stalking some poor waitress, just "any restaurant," most employ some women lol) but atm I'm working too much OT.
Per my prior comment - "Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range." That is not D&D, my dude. To later points - that's where you need to be to meet people. I'm going to assume that you don't go to church, and you said that you were out of college. That said, taking personal enrichment classes can be a good place to meet people and make friends, like finding classes on pottery throwing, or jewelry making. (Lapidary tends to attract more men though, which is a little odd.) Classes on making stained glass, maybe? Or ballroom dancing.
I’m not exactly in shape but I’m not exactly out of it either [...] Supposedly dad bods are in however.
Yeah, no. Get in shape. I mean the kind of shape where you have a resting heart rate below 60bpm, can run at least a 5k and survive, lifting free weights, etc. In general people that are in good physical condition, and look like it, will have a far easier time dating, because that's your first impression. The 'dad bod' thing isn't about women preferring men that look like X, Y, or Z, but is more a statement that personality and how a man acts is more important than how he looks. HOWEVER, your appearance is going to be the first thing that people see, so you want to start on a high point.
For reference, when I was dating, I was riding my bike about 28 miles/day, 5 days/week, and in the gym about two hours a day.
I do take showers nightly
I would suggest morning rather than nightly. People sweat at night, and you want to start the day as fresh as possible.
I’ve seen worse though, and from women at that!
Irrelevant. You're trying to create a positive impression.
Not a supervisor, but yeah it just seems like a whole can of worms I’d rather leave closed.
It is not something I'd recommend if you work closely with a person.
Honestly, I think that the best bet is going to be trying to make friends through classes that you take for enjoyment, and just trying to be social there. Like, no pressure, not goal-oriented socializing, just trying to meet people and make friends socializing.
Find a hobby that often has some kind of social interaction and stereotypically attracts women in your age range." That is not D&D, my dude.
Sees post about woman complaining about her D&D group
"Women don't play D&D!"
Bruh Crit Roll came out, your info is like 10yr out of date, women play TTRPGs now. Nerdy ones mostly but that's cool.
Pottery class is a good idea though, I could get into that shit!
Cool plastic surgery it is lol. Nah ngl I think you're wrong about the whole "you have to look like them steroid using celebs" but who knows.
Unfortunately I can't ride my bike that long as I have a job. I'm 5'6" 130lbs no abs, they can take it or leave it at that point tbh, fuck em if they want to be shallow. I'm not going to completely change who I am and become a gym rat, I don't think it's as serious of an issue as you make it out to be.
Well too bad! Nightly it is, I'd rather sleep on clean sheets than get home greasy and sweaty from a 10hr shift of manual labour and pretend that getting into bed in that state is not disgusting as fuck, and I'm not taking 2 showers a day unless I need to.
Well cats gotta play, the laundry I can indees pick up but if they don't want a dude with cats tbh I'm not the one.
Yeah I don't reccomend it either which is why I say I don't want to do it, logically.
Yeah that pottery class idea sounds like a good one.
Bruh Crit Roll came out, your info is like 10yr out of date, women play TTRPGs now. Nerdy ones mostly but that’s cool.
It's still heavily stacked towards being men. If your end goal is to meet women that you can be friends with, and possibly date, you want to reverse those ratios.
Nah ngl I think you’re wrong about the whole “you have to look like them steroid using celebs” but who knows.
For a first impression? It absolutely helps. That's the whole point of a first impression; they have absolutely nothing to go off but your appearance, so you need to make your appearance look as good as possible. Being bigger than, say, Dwayne Johnson in his prime probably isn't going to help. And the kind of fitness I'm talking about can absolutely be achieved without resorting to illegal drugs or cosmetic surgery.
Unfortunately I can’t ride my bike that long as I have a job.
That was how I got to and from work. Work was 14 miles, one way, in city traffic. I carried work clothes in a large messenger bag and changed when I got to work. (This obvs. doesn't work if you have a job that requires you to carry e.g. tools to and from job sites.)
I’m not going to completely change who I am and become a gym rat, I don’t think it’s as serious of an issue as you make it out to be.
Look, that's on you. But the idea that, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me" didn't work well for Stuart Smalley either. A lot of people think that you shouldn't have to change anything about who you are in order to find or attract a partner, or that people should 'accept me as I am'; I disagree with that. If you aren't finding people that are interested in who you are--and that you are likewise interested in--then the problem isn't with other people, it's within you, and incumbent on you to make the changes in yourself. You want your own psychological needs and desires met, but at the same time, you need to be ready and able to meet the needs and desires of another person. And yes, that means making changes. And those changes can be difficult and uncomfortable to make.
You can argue about which changes are, and are not, reasonable to make, but ultimately, if you aren't willing to make changes, then you can't expect to find what you say you want.
Well cats gotta play,
I have 6 of them (three Sphynx, one Cornish Rex, a Siamese, and a formerly feral Manx, down from an all-time high of 10). I'm aware. But I still pick up their toys, vacuum the floors/carpet/upholstery, clean their boxes, wipe up the food they pull out of their bowls, etc.
I love tabletop gaming but unless it's a very large very active group that meets frequently, it's not a great choice for meeting people for dating purposes. (It is great for making friends, though).
Even when it is a large group, there are better choices, in my experience.
Better ways, IMHO: Volunteering, joining a large church, joining a coed sports league, or joining a large music ensemble (choirs in particular are great).
But you still need to use common sense. To meet available people, you need to go where the available people are. If you volunteer to deliver meals to the elderly, that's truly wonderful, but you probably won't meet the person of your dreams doing that.
Volunteering maybe. Church is crazy, you want me to join a whole ass religion just to meet a woman and then what, pretend to be christian for the rest of my life?! I'd sooner go back to the drink! Sports I'm not really into, and everyone keeps saying "don't just do it to meet women" but like, that's exactly what I'd be doing. Idk maybe like ping pong or something but idt we have a local ping pong league near me, I'll look. Choirs are very churchy are they not? That'd be the same as either sports or church in either case, depending.
Yes, "where are the people" is essentially my question. Some insist "literally everywhere, just do the thing and let em complain, fuck em" which seems to be the leading suggestion. Another dude said his area has singles hikes and shit so I'm gonna check that out too if my area does.
There are plenty of non-church choirs and music groups. That is, if you live in a decent-sized city. If you have some musical ability, it's a great way to mingle.
Community theater and improv groups are other possibilities. Sometimes they are looking for volunteers to do a variety of jobs. It's not all about performing.
I wasn't suggesting you fake being religious just to attend a church. I'm an atheist myself, but I was raised in the church. The only things I miss about it are the socializing and some of the music. I thought if you were already religious, you could find a larger church. (I got flirted with a lot in church.)
And I'll point out that some religions like Bhudism and New Age spiritualism can be more like philosophy than religion, depending on the group. There's absolutely nothing wrong with attending out of curiosity. They expect a few "seekers" to visit.
There are also things like adult education. Cooking classes, dance classes, and the like. Also book reading clubs. Not ideal, but better than sitting at home.
Good luck. I know it's highly challenging in these cynical times we live in.
I think I'm unintentionally replying to all your comments specifically. Every adult needs cooking classes. Most of us were taught basic home cooking, which is fine, but knowing a little bit more about how to actually saute can really change your eating habits for the better.
No one on 4chan believed her because of rule 30 and because "they didn't know that you can play games in the kitchen". I can read the comments without the comments.
You know, it really makes it feel like those comments are particularly useless when, just by having used the website for a long enough time, you can imagine them simply by the scars they have branded onto your thinking goo. It becomes totally redundant at that point, totally useless, even worse than it having contributed nothing but empty space in the first place, it now occupies empty space in the brain. It's like old farts constantly remembering and bantering about ad jingles from their youth, it fills me with dread.
I've got some lemons, let's have a party and scrub the things from your brain that you've seen and leave a nice citrusy scent instead. We can call it a lemon party.
My wife plays FPS games and doesn't even speak because the moment she does, half the dudes feel like they need to show off and get her attention, and the other half get sexually frustrated and laser focus on only her.
I only play FPS in VR and the male/female interactions are weirdly wholesome. Literally never seen the behaviours that are sadly the norm in flatscreen gaming. I'm still not sure why this is the case, maybe the reporting system is just better, or it's something to do with feeling more present in VR.
There's no need to speak in online games anyway. I never use a mic or headset to play games like that, I still just use the chat. Voice chat always off.
Guy chiming in. I use to go to small, monthly lan parties a lot. Every now and then a woman would show up and 4 or 5 of the average 10 total guys would make weird jokes about there being a female present. I don't think I ever saw the same woman twice.
That's sad. At our LAN there were two women regularly. One lost interest in PC games and the other now comes with her friend. She's pretty good at Chivalry. What a bloodthirsty girl...
It's was weird. Growing up, I took the "girls don't play video games" attitude as self deprecating machismo. Finding out that, no, this was how many people, including many girls my age, though was... disappointing.
I'm not sure your point. I used both "woman" and "female" in my comment. I used the term "female" specifically when I did to reinforce the idea that certain people in the group saw the women more as foreign objects than new people.
I don't hang out with those people and if you asked me if I stepped in to do anything about that weirdness, I wouldn't have because it would have been a loss cause. I hang out with better groups now a days.
I just want to talk at the fellas here. Man to man.
If you do this shit, the women will leave and not come back. I know the incels are going to think that's typical female behavior, and I'm here to say, no, it's not. It's typical for someone, of any gender, to want to exit a situation where they feel vulnerable, and that's what is happening.
Think of it like this: you end up in prison, and your naked, alone, you have no allies or friends, while taking a shower with about 100 other dudes, and Bubba comes over with a grin saying "you're awful pretty". How would you feel? I'm guessing you would want to nope the hell out of there and never take a shower with Bubba in the room, ever again. And that's natural. You were in danger, you want to avoid that danger. While the circumstances might be different for the women you're interacting with, that raw emotion, the exact same one you would have felt with Bubba talking about how pretty you are, the feeling that gave you, it's exactly the same.
Now think, after Bubba made such a statement, what could Bubba do to win your trust to shower next to them again at all? Probably not much. Same deal fellas. There's little to nothing you can do or say to make them feel comfortable being around you when you've done something that inspires that unsafe feeling of danger.
Now, how could Bubba avoid the situation of you feeling like you're in danger and wanting to get out of there. A reassurance? Like Bubba instead saying "don't worry, I'll protect you".... You're going to wonder "from what?" Because until Bubba spoke up, you had no feeling of danger. How does that make you feel? Well, I would feel like there's danger that Bubba knows about that I don't, so now I'm on edge, looking for what Bubba is talking about, and all of a sudden, I'm having the same feeling of danger, just this time from an unknown assailant. That's not good either. I'd still want to gtfo and not go back. Worse now since I don't know what the danger actually is. Not only would I not want to shower with Bubba nearby like in the previous scenario, but now I don't want to be left alone with anyone.
Same deal fellas. By trying to reassure the lady, you imply that there's danger indirectly; she gets creeped out and leaves to not come back.
So, what's the right thing to do here?
It's easier than you think. Treat them like you would any of your male friends. Treat them like a person. You don't need to reassure your male friends that you'll protect them, nor do you feel the need to defend them when their "honor" is challenged. Let them handle it, but have their back if they need you.... and only if they need you.
Be a friend first, and if something happens that makes your relationship with that person, more than just friends, so much the better. Don't expect it, women aren't slot machines, where you put in enough tokens of niceness and eventually you win the sex jackpot. It doesn't work that way. It never has, and it never will. You can't force someone to like you, and if you try, you'll either take any attraction that they might have had for you, and destroy it, and/or simply cause them to feel unsafe and creeped out, and they'll find a way to exit and never return.
People, regardless of gender, just want to do things they enjoy. If you also enjoy those things, then engage in the enjoyment of those things with the other people who enjoy them. Don't make it about gender. If, beyond that, you both like eachother, you'll find a way to spend more time together and that's when things can grow to more than just being friendly, as long as you're both agreeable to it.
If you continually obsess over the fact that their anatomy is different, you'll end up filling whatever negative ideas you have about the other gender, and push yourself so deep into a hole of confirmation bias that you may never recover. Just be people. Treat others the same, as people.
I believe in you. You can do better. Always improving.
You will fall, you will be rejected, you will have set backs. And that's all normal. It's a part of learning.
You got this.
I can summarize: It's an appeal to reason written from the perspective of a nice, caring, socially aware man called Bubba, who doesn't understand why women run from him when he approaches them in the shower.
I'm a nice guy: I give some small, cute dude a compliment and he acts like a total bitch about it? I'm the "creep" because I jokingly asked him if he wants to come back to my cell? Oh, my comments make him uncomfortable? Give me a fuckin' break.
Maybe if he doesn't want guys checking him out he should stop acting and dressing like such a slut.
Treat them like you would any of your male friends.
Don't do this. Understand that you wouldn't do this with any random guy either. As with any new acquaintances everyone is cautious in the beginning and women more so. Whether you find the new girl appealing or not all you have to do is cautiously get to know her through your interactions with her, like any other relations you may build with initial strangers and get used to their presence and predilections.
Trust is at its most basic a finite resource. Whenever a person messes up they recover by giving some of that trust away. Eventually that trust runs out. In rare cases you can regain some of it. However, in the vast majority of situations you'll never get back all that trust lost.
Thank you for this. You are eloquently and (hopefully) non-threateningly (is that even a word?) stating a message that really, really needs to be said again and again until everyone friggin' gets it.
IMO, A nontrivial amount of blame goes to the fathers of such people.
This shouldn't imply that those who need to hear this are exempt from blame; they should have simply been educated by their parents on simple social etiquette....
Of course, I'm also certain that a nontrivial number of those father's actively encouraged such misbehavior.
It can often be how you go about it. If you just dive in and start talking to them, even if well intentioned and you literally do just want to talk to someone new about whatever, because of all those past experiences of guys only trying to do that to get with them, they'll see you as probably just another one of those creepos.
It's a dance, and it's an annoying one at times for sure, and it takes practice. If you can recall the last time you tried to strike up a conversation, or next time it happens, afterwards, really stop and think about it from the other person's perspective. If you know a woman you trust, try asking her to go over the whole interaction with you.
In college I was a major incel neckbeard loser and truly was the epitome of the green text above. I'm not proud of it. I took a chance and asked a few women I knew why I kept being single and lonely and if they could advise. They did exactly that for me. Took me through some of my interactions, explained where I went wrong, and helped me reframe my thoughts. I now am pretty much always able to strike up a conversation wherever I'm at.
TL:DR - find someone you trust to walk you through the why. You got this
I see, maybe that was it, even tho I did not have intention to get accustomed to.
Btw idk why I am downvoted that much, do people think I am lying? Huh. I thought it was possible to be interested in becoming friends, even tho it is towards women..
Also, people do not know of those who avoid just based on looks?
Sure there's people out there who will avoid you based on looks but usually though it's something else. If you're confident, kind, and properly socializing, then looks often don't matter.
The thing about looks that matter is how you present yourself. Keep up the hygiene, keep your clothes cleaned, and just present your best self as a person.
I say this as a fat dude who hasn't bought new clothes in 10+ years and even then bought what I liked not what was in style. I still do just fine. For us men, our look is in our attitude.
You seem like you really want to find the answer to getting out there but you're getting in your own head. Just let it slide, go have fun, don't focus on other people, don't worry about past slip ups once you've learned from them, maybe find a mentor. You do that, and the rest will happen. It just takes time and patience.
Think of it like this: you end up in prison, and your naked, alone, you have no allies or friends, while taking a shower with about 100 other dudes, and Bubba comes over with a grin saying “you’re awful pretty”. How would you feel?
My advice is to find a more diverse group. Married and LTR folks are typically less likely to engage in this behavior, especially if their partners are there too. Its tough when you're in your 20s because 20something guys are all trying to throw their 3 pointer despite the odds.
Either that or find an overtly lewd mixed-gender/mixed-sexuality group and embrace it. I played a very racy campaign in Uni that was a lot of fun. Everyone was onboard with what was going on though before it started and we knew it was going to get weird in a fun way. It was a fun way to also explore my own gender sexuality in a safe no-contact fantasy way.
It's people, there is never any winning. You do your best to find chill people and don't waste your precious limited leisure time with people who make you feel bad.
Most women won't even accept a strange man into their activities. That's why you don't hear about this happening to men. Because unwanted sexual advances from women on men in women's friends circles definitely happen I can tell you from first hand experience. And women tend to be very insensitive to men's sexuality and not only encourage it but pressure you accept the advances because men "go for anything" so it shouldn't make a difference to you.
