Apple ( slrpnk.net )

I don't care if anyone has a Xiaomi, Oneplus, Samsung, etc. Each brand is using a modified version of Android, and they chose to be compatible with each other. But for example the "blue vs green bubble" drama is a thing specifically because of Apple locking their unsuspecting users into a closed ecosystem. And it sure isn't Android's fault for not being compatible with it.

The more power a company like this gains, the worse will it be for the whole industry.

Psiczar ,

Who is unsuspecting? I choose to use a iPhone because:

It is a closed ecosystem, a billion apps is enough for me.
I wanted to be able to update the phone for many years
I didn’t want to have preinstalled 3rd party bloatware
I wanted a device that was less prone to malware

Android is a great OS, and it is better in some areas than iOS, but nothing particularly important to me.

Only Americans are concerned about green and blue bubbles. If it’s so upsetting to you, use WhatsApp. Don’t blame Apple because Google couldn’t standardise on a single messaging app for more than 5 minutes.

Using Google devices and pointing at Apple and saying “they’re evil, don’t use them” is laughable. They’re all bad companies, no organisation should be worth trillions.

SpermGoobler ,

I wanna throw in my 2 cents as I'm considering getting an iPhone after only ever using Android

Recently I've started noticing how much disrespect for your time and attention I've experienced on Android. It's not so much Android itself, but the ecosystem around it:

  • A layer of bloatware from most major manufacturers

  • The Play Store and Samsung store trying their hardest to sell you some bullshit app with the most obnoxious clickbait banner.

  • My Samsung phone forcing me to install some random apps I don't want with a prompt that I can't dismiss.

  • Google or Samsung (I can't remember which) trying to get me to agree to personalised ads by presenting it as if it's a 'we've updated our terms' type prompt.

  • Google ads being generally annoying.

And more general malware-like behaviour trying to sell me shit.
I don't care.

I'm not my grandma who's just going to blindly fall for whatever slight of hand that gets them 10c when I install some borderline malware app, it's just annoying.
I just want a phone that's reasonably powerful, and works.

Android itself is great, and I've been able to improve the experience by using an ad blocker and f-droid where possible, but it's rough.
I can't install a custom ROM as my banking apps don't work if I do :////

I hate looking up to Apple as a solution here as they're do a bunch of shitty things

Noel_Skum ,

I pretty much agree with all of that but wanted to add that when BlackBerry BB10 was discontinued (miss you, Z30) I had the option of Microsoft, Google or Apple. I chose the least bad of a poor bunch… The original monopolists or an ad-obsessed stalker were of no interest to me.

Nurgle ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/82b1057b-d4e5-402b-9244-0fc63060863d.jpeg

tsugu OP ,
@tsugu@slrpnk.net avatar

I don't think about you at all.

And that's the problem.

Nurgle ,

Okay we can start mobbing every random android thread and start calling you all sheeple?

AVincentInSpace ,

You buy what Apple sells because you're locked into the Apple ecosystem, and 90% of the time, you're locked into the Apple ecosystem because your friends or family use it.

Now that I've said mine, what's your reason for calling me sheeple?

Nurgle ,

I’m not 14, I’m not going to call you sheeple or presume to know why you picked out your phone.

AVincentInSpace ,

Then why did you say you wanted to?

Nurgle ,

I don’t.. I inferred I could mimic the android users behavior like OPs seen in most threads.

AVincentInSpace ,

So what you're saying is that you just call names for the sake of calling names and don't much care whether or not a critique is valid?

Nurgle ,

What no? I'm saying if OP wants iphone uses to act like android users we can start going into threads that have nothing to do with iPhone and stir up shit for no reason.

AVincentInSpace ,

To that I say, sure, why not? I'm up for having a debate.

Also, you'll have a hard time saying that the post you're currently commenting on isn't about android vs iphone.

Honytawk ,

Bottom should be: "I don't think about anyone but myself"

boredtortoise ,

I've heard green bubbles live in their heads rent free

Yerbouti ,

"My personality is based on the fact that I have an iPhone."

Nurgle ,

Its looking more like y’all’s personality is based on the fact other people have iPhones.

pixeltree ,
@pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Back on reddit, there was a subreddit called non-golfers. It was created to poke fun at atheists, being a metaphor for a community around something they don't like. It grew, with newcomers not understanding the joke and taking it seriously and unironically being a community about hating golf. (I was one of those people, I'm self aware now). It kinda strikes me as human nature, tribalism, rearing its ugly head once again. I'll leave you with this relevant video, highly worth the watch.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

Nurgle ,

It’s amazing how many subreddits fell victim to the satire to unironic hate club lifecycle. And that video was great. Especially the part at the end about how groups make their own totem/straw men to keep the anger up.

pixeltree ,
@pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeah. For the most part those communities seemed to have not jumped to lemmy which I'm grateful for. I think hate is like the fast food of emotions, it's addictive and we love it but it's bad for you and eating nothing but that will fuck you up. That video really fundamentally changed how I view things on the internet and if there's one thing I really wish I could expose more people to, that's it.

kibiz0r , (edited )

There is plenty to criticize about Apple when it comes to anti-consumer and anti-competitive business practices...

But if you're gonna talk on the level of "evil" and "freedom", Apple's greatest sin is their supply chain.

And then there's Google, whose evil I would place somewhere between [Apple’s] pseudo-monopoly and [Apple’s] pseudo-slavery. At least Apple is a tech company. Google is a surveillance company that just happens to make tech so they can monitor you more closely.

Working with the shared-space AR APIs in iOS and Android really drove home the difference in their priorities. The iOS SDK only allowed us to share AR data through a local, SDK-managed connection. The data is opaque, can't be directly serialized, and doesn't work anyway if you try to persist/distribute it yourself. Android, on the other hand... They wanted us to upload your AR data to Google-owned servers, where they could do Google-knows-what with the scans of your living room.

It's sad that we're at a point where you have to either pay for your privacy, or pay with your privacy. But we can at least not be naive about it. Android is more interoperable, more prolific, and more lenient with third-party code. And that's because it's a good strategy if you're a surveillance giant. Not because it's good for consumers.

Edit:

Got a couple of comments that are like "Um, actually, Apple is still subject to government surveillance and exploits".

Let me be clear: You should not expect any off-the-shelf product to shield you from intelligence agencies and state-sponsored hackers. You will have to radically change your life to accomplish that, and "Apple or Google?" won't even be a relevant question for you.

And I'm not saying Apple doesn't do shady monitoring for their own commercial purposes.

All I'm saying is that Google's core business model is shady monitoring, and that directly influences their decisions regarding Android. So painting it as the commoner's hero against the greedy walled-garden warden is a dangerous proposition.

There are no good guys here.

There's some hardware, SDKs, and back-end services that you can evaluate on their own merits if you're capable.

But if you want to just look at business practices:

  • There's one company that doesn't want to integrate with anything outside of their own products -- because that's good for their bottom line.
  • And there's one company that wants to integrate with anything and everything -- because that's good for their bottom line.

Don't assume the difference is benevolence.

Zerush ,
@Zerush@lemmy.ml avatar
dessalines ,
@dessalines@lemmy.ml avatar

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/7e075860-64f6-4740-a31d-c78a0c9a12bf.jpeg

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/99a707ed-f59a-4313-a265-7e9178d09b84.jpeg

vane ,

Why is it always people that use android bragging about that people that use apple don't want to communicate with them and completly ignore them. And right after they go play ps5 exclusives.

Trollception ,

Words are hard

Honytawk ,

Because there is no such thing the other way around? Its only Apple that does that shit.

And what does Playstation have to do with anything? The last one I had was PS2

vane ,

Playstation or Nintendo have no open hardware or software you can install on those products so why Apple is different from them ? Only because they make mobile phones or PCs ?
If they decide they don't do PC or mobile phone and rename their products to something different, abandon standards that in fact they established and then market their products as it's not a phone people, it's not a pc, don't use it if you want a pc or mobile phone, would this make people feeling happy ?
That's stupid.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

My main beef with smartphones is how easy it is for OEMs to completely lock that piece of shit and make it impossible for anyone without lots of patience and a hacker mindset to get root permission to uninstall bloatware, or a custom rom. "Oh, but you can do that on phone XYZ!" - But you can't with nearly every other phone

Zerush ,
@Zerush@lemmy.ml avatar

Freedom was when Telephones were still with a cable attached to the wall, before the dependence on always being reachable with these snitches in your pocket.

indepndnt ,

And we only got that because of government action, forcing Ma Bell to allow folks to use their own equipment.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

As a person who has never owned anything but android...you can't possibly think Google is any less evil.

tsugu OP ,
@tsugu@slrpnk.net avatar

https://slrpnk.net/comment/6754380
Nobody is forcing me to buy their phones or their stock version of android though. A lot of people manage to live just fine with fully de-googled roms, installable even on google's own phones.

EdibleFriend , (edited )
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

And do those phones that have been degoogled solve the issue of all the slave labor along the production chain?

And even if you install a ROM... You're still supporting them. You're funding Google.

I'm sorry dude but you're comparing apples to apples. They're both horrible disgusting companies, and there really is no picking the morally correct side.

tsugu OP ,
@tsugu@slrpnk.net avatar

Google is not a good company by any means, but when you buy their Pixel it's your device. You can unlock its bootloader and install whichever OS you like. And even with the stock Android you've always been free to do anything. There are no features built into Android that lock you in and force the other side to buy one as well. Whereas Apple's iMessage is available on iPhones only, peer pressuring others into buying one. Saying that buying an iPhone and an Android phone is morally the same is dishonest at the least. Especially since Android is just an open platform and each manufacturer is using their own modified version. Brands such as Xiaomi or Huawei went even beyond the software skin and optimized their ROMs to run especially well with their own hardware. If you buy an iPhone, you are forcing those around you into buying a specific device made by a specific company that loves playing Monopoly a bit too much.

bloodfart ,

Things you buy aren’t moral choices. If there is no ethical consumption under capitalism there must neither be any moral consumption under capitalism either.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Lol seriously. He's literally trying to frame Google as the morally correct choice as opposed to the teensy bit less evil choice.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

I will admit the openness is why I chose one disgustingly evil company over the other. You do have a point there. But there is no getting over the fact that Google is doing serious damage in many ways and just because you managed to uninstall all their spyware when you bought a pixel or any android device you are still funding that. You personally help them grow and become more of a problem for the Internet at large.

And I like that you completely glossed over the biggest point... That they both profit off of slave labor. And of course child labor.

But hey open software means slaves are not as bad right?

tsugu OP ,
@tsugu@slrpnk.net avatar

Like I said, an Android phone does not equal a Pixel made by Google. If you are concerned about where the resources used to manufacture your device are from, get a Fairphone and flash Lineage/CalixOS on it. That way you are "supporting" Google in the smallest possible way and you can still use a smartphone.

WitchHazel ,

The FBI demonstrated during the San Bernardino shooting investigation that Apple must purposefully put backdoors in their devices, as the FBI was able to independently crack the phone, which isn't possible without a backdoor or a security flaw so poor that a third-world hacker could access it with some level of effort or knowledge.

Do not trust Apple with your privacy, even less so than Google. At least Google will allow you to see everything they've collected on you and prevent random bad actors from accessing your data, which is something we can't be sure of with apple. This isn't about which is the more moral company, it's about which is more dangerous to the consumer. Complete lack of control over your computing environment will only make sense in cases where you're expected to have a complete lack of knowledge of computers and someone else does the thinking and manages your device.

bloodfart ,

The fbi contracted a third party to defeat the limit on passcode attempts so they could brute force the lock screen by having someone just sit there trying every possible code. My understanding is that it involved physical access to the device and the way that process is handled by the phone was reengineered shortly afterwards to prevent it from happening in the future.

That’s not a backdoor, that’s sawing the front door into pieces to avoid triggering the anti-tamper system on the hinges and lock.

If you want backdoor worries, look to the generations of apple chips with undocumented memory mapped io registers that were in development during that time period. But don’t think too hard about how arm chips are developed or why that got left in there or how. You may come to the undeniable conclusion that a natsec cutout is licensing slabs of arm feature silicon with backdoors built in.

This is not a defense of apple. Only a clarification that there wasn’t a backdoor found in the San bernidino phone, and that if you wanna be freaked out about back doors there’s better stuff to get crazy over.

WitchHazel ,

Gotcha gotcha

Thanks for the clarification

bloodfart ,

if youre worried about backdoors and spying, its a good idea to start paying attention to the trade publications and training media made for reprehensible spooks.

they'll say shit that makes you throw up in your mouth but you'll never look at push notifications or sms the same way again.

Honytawk ,

Usually, they just copy the phone into a Virtual Machine and copy the machine millions of times to try every password.

SquirtleHermit ,

More than you are implying. An Apple product means you have to buy from Apple. At least with android you can order a Fairphone. Which, while not perfect, is significantly better in the "slave labor" category.

Honytawk ,

Yes, because not all Android phones are made in the same factory. There are brands with next to no slave labour.

MonkderZweite ,

Well, Samsung's are a bit more modified.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

plainrock124

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@kbin.social avatar

Virtually any company big enough to make a worthwhile phone is going to do terrible things. Think a given company is an exception? They won’t be once they get larger.

That being said, the fact that “everybody does it” doesn’t make it okay. The “blue vs green bubble” shit is nonsense that’s totally unnecessary.

Sent from my iPad

gianni ,

As an Android user, Android phones with Google Play Services are no better - in fact I'd say they're probably worse

Stitch0815 ,

No at least you can side loade and install other app stores out of the box with android.
It`s far from perfect but still way better.

thorbot , (edited )

News flash, you can do that on iOS too.

Edit: downvote away, my custom apps on my iPhone run great without jail breaking. Love all the wrong info on Lemmy. Good stuff.

flashgnash ,

Don't you have to jailbreak to do that

thorbot , (edited )

Nope. You can install any app with developer license. You can also jailbreak. Don’t bother replying to this comment, I’ve read enough brain dead replies already.

Zangoose ,

Which costs an additional $100/yr for something that's free on any other platform.

thorbot ,

Naw you can use a service like maplesign for $10

flashgnash ,

With developer license

Doesn't seem fair to pay for the luxury of being able to install your own software

ReakDuck ,

Not really, no

thorbot ,

Okay! You’re wrong but that’s alright. I’m running custom apps on my device without jailbreaking.

Honytawk , (edited )

Yeah, the customs apps, for which you pay a developer license for. Which need to be reinstalled every so often because Apple doesn't want you to use apps like that.

They run so great though /s

The_Che_Banana ,
@The_Che_Banana@beehaw.org avatar

FDroid for open source apps.

Player2 ,

They are all kind of terrible right now, at least for me. I hate what the big companies are doing, and the smaller projects such as Fairphone simply aren't good enough yet. Guess I'll try to make my existing one last for as long as possible, though that was already the plan.

KpntAutismus ,

i feel you, the fairphone 4 works well enough for me though. a lot of software/hardware bugs are yet to be ironed out fully, but fairphones are steadily getting better.

although the 6th gen needs to improve a lot, the 5's launch was disappointing to say the least.

Honytawk ,

I also have a Fairphone 4, but I have encountered no significant bugs I can remember.

Installed LineageOS on it though, with microG, instead of /e/.

Can you tell me what issues you had?

KpntAutismus ,

My FP4 was affected by the "ghost touch" hardware bug, i ended up getting a replacement screen after contacting support. (it never fully went away, it has a few spasms every once in a while)

also the crashing while connected to 5G put me in a few pickles. sometimes when receiving a call while watching youtube the call's notification bubble will take up to 5 seconds to appear at all.

it seems to also ocasionally forget that it has a SIM card installed, though that sim has been in use for 10+ years, so i can't say if that's the Fairphones's fault.

lemmyreader ,

the smaller projects such as Fairphone simply aren’t good enough yet

What is not good enough with Fairphone ?

Zangoose ,

Their 7 (?) years of software support is kind of misleading to me because they stop getting chip-level security updates after something like 3-4 years due to the specific Qualcomm chip they use. Not to mention the chip is on the slower side of today's phones, let alone phones 7 years from now.

I can see how others might be fine with that though, just my 2 cents.

Player2 ,

Display, battery life, performance, supported bands, software reliability, camera quality, etc.

I know I am one of those weirdos that asks for a lot from a mobile device, but I want something that can act as a high speed hotspot for 5 devices and a desktop environment at the same time, while playing back high resolution media and charging fast. This kind of thing has always been possible with Samsung's flagship, but now every generation it feels like yet more is removed compared to the older one. I'm still on the S21U and while I'm not very happy with it, I haven't seen anything better, including the new Samsungs.

Maybe I should set my sights lower, but it just frustrates me because these are all things my S9+ could do in 2017.

AFC1886VCC ,

Power users get screwed over now.

webghost0101 ,

I cant be the only one who dreams of apple and all their pattents becoming foss.

Itl never happen under capitalism but damn would it be nice.

chaosppe ,
@chaosppe@lemmy.world avatar

Nu uh, iPhone is going to cure world hunger. Why do you think he's called Tim COOK?

emptiestplace ,

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/76c535cb-f457-4784-8351-bfe2932824ce.jpeg

thorbot ,

Also chat GPT: urs flier is not bent the end in is if you guerts ba loopen

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