feditips ,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar
  1. Meta/Facebook has a horrific track record on human rights:
  1. Meta/Facebook is trying to join the Fediverse. We need to defederate them.

  2. If you're a server admin, please defederate Meta's domain "threads.net" (here's how on Mastodon https://fedi.tips/how-to-defederate-fediblock-a-server-on-mastodon/)

  3. If you don't run your own server, please ask your server admin to defederate "threads.net". Your admin is listed on your server website's About page.

gadgetfrog ,
@gadgetfrog@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips Isn’t this what we want? For all major social media to federate with each other using an open standard? A big company takes the first big step towards this, and now we suddenly don’t want federation with them anymore?

feditips OP ,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar

@gadgetfrog

Wanting a standard to become common doesn't mean you should federate with a server that has a terrible human rights record.

Does this sound like someone who should be in charge of content moderation policy?

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17587080/mark-zuckerberg-holocaust-denial-kara-swisher-interview

"Facebook will continue to offer a platform to Holocaust deniers, Infowars, and other publishers of hoaxes on the assumption that they are sincere in their beliefs, CEO Mark Zuckerberg said."

gadgetfrog ,
@gadgetfrog@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips I don’t love their moderation either, but they are going to be the biggest instance of people on the fediverse, and cutting them off completely from everyone in a server seems extreme. I think we should let people decide for themselves whether or not to interact with Threads. Also, the beauty of the fediverse means they are not in charge of content moderation for all of the fediverse, and mastodon servers can still moderate people on the threads server to fit their rules.

Aatube ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

@feditips Can't we just block such people? It's not like some things aren't happening on lemmy.ml

@gadgetfrog

AudraTran ,
@AudraTran@fosstodon.org avatar

@feditips What does Meta's history of human rights have to do with federation?

Are you under the impression that federation somehow supports these violations? And if so, how?

WhyNotZoidberg ,
@WhyNotZoidberg@topspicy.social avatar

@AudraTran @feditips ...what?

Talk about completely missing the plot.

"I don't want to communicate with a company that is actively fascist!"

"But the communication in itself is not pro-fascist!"

...Facepalm.

AudraTran ,
@AudraTran@fosstodon.org avatar

@WhyNotZoidberg 🤣🤦 nothing about it is fascist. This only benefits the Fediverse and hurts Meta. Would you like to answer the question or just hurl insults at people who disagree with you?

WhyNotZoidberg ,
@WhyNotZoidberg@topspicy.social avatar

@AudraTran I don't need to answer an irrelevant question, that's the point.

Your question is literally irrelevant to the original post.

(Oh and Meta is actively pushing fascism in several countries, so yeah. As the original posts tell you).

AudraTran ,
@AudraTran@fosstodon.org avatar

@WhyNotZoidberg the post is about federating with Meta and I'm asking why we shouldn't federate with Meta. But sure, completely irrelevant 🤣

WhyNotZoidberg ,
@WhyNotZoidberg@topspicy.social avatar

@AudraTran Nobody has an obligation to federate with anyone. If you want to federate with meta, be on an instance that has chosen to do so.

I don't want anything to do with Meta; I quit facebook and Instagram years ago, why on earth should I read posts from Threads? I have actively avoided them for three years now.

That said, people who know about the human rights violations and still support them obviously also support human rights violations.

AudraTran ,
@AudraTran@fosstodon.org avatar

@WhyNotZoidberg I am not telling anyone what to do. The original poster I replied to is. I just asked a question. If you don't have an answer to the question, feel free not to reply to me.

Nobody is advocating for supporting Meta. Quite the opposite, really.

Edit because I've been blocked:

Everyone on Mastodon can personally block an instance. No one is forcing you to listen to the Nazis on Threads anymore than they are the Nazis on the fedi.

WhyNotZoidberg ,
@WhyNotZoidberg@topspicy.social avatar

@AudraTran The answer to your question is: Your question only makes sense if you are some sort of Freeze Peas absolutist who think it is everybody's right to be heard by everybody and that nobody should have the right to say "no, I do not want anything to do with you because I hate what you stand for".

The "act of federating" here is the same as standing and listening to the campaigning Nazi on the square. I don't want to listen to him, so I do not let him communicate with me.

Aatube ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

@WhyNotZoidberg Problem is at least half of these users have nothing to do with Fascism. Maybe the company is facsist, but that doesn't mean everyone who uses its products are fascist.

@feditips @AudraTran

WhyNotZoidberg ,
@WhyNotZoidberg@topspicy.social avatar

@AudraTran Oh and btw, people who think it is somehow "wrong" to fediblock Meta because they share protocol are in a cult.

BoydStephenSmithJr ,
@BoydStephenSmithJr@hachyderm.io avatar

@AudraTran @feditips For now, I'm going to try to stay on an instance that will federate with threads.net, but if an instance thinks defederation is the best way to serve/protect their users, they should do so.

Sometimes a "net split" is the healthiest solution. Intolerance cannot be tolerated, if we are to preserve tolerance.

AudraTran ,
@AudraTran@fosstodon.org avatar

@BoydStephenSmithJr in what way is federation "tolerating intolerance"?

BoydStephenSmithJr ,
@BoydStephenSmithJr@hachyderm.io avatar

@AudraTran Tolerating intolerance can happen over any information transfer mechanism.

I don't think any of the accounts covered by the current Threads beta has been intolerant, but I have heard there are intolerant organizations with a current presence of Threads.

Federation that included transferring their intolerance would be tolerating intolerance.

Atlas48 ,
@Atlas48@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@feditips "defederate", bah! back in my day we said "k-line".

liberloebi ,
@liberloebi@digitalcourage.social avatar

@feditips Aye!

CounterTurtle ,
@CounterTurtle@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips hard to understand what purpose this serves?? Leave it up to users to decide who they do and don’t want to communicate with.

resol ,
@resol@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips All I see on Threads are endless arguments about the current Israel-Hamas war. If Threads gets on its way to implement ActivityPub support, I'm willing to bet that so many of these posts will start creeping into my Mastodon and Lemmy feeds, so I'd rather not deal with that side of the platform.
On the flip side, I can follow people I actually care about without dealing with Meta's bullcrap. So it's all both a curse and a blessing at the same time.
I'm not sure if ads will show up too.

frankobert ,
@frankobert@nrw.social avatar

@feditips
I hate meta and I don't want to see it again even though I had some friends there.

KanaMauna ,
@KanaMauna@sauropods.win avatar

@feditips Boycotts work when the boycotter is bigger than the boycottee. Your plan is not going to work at all.

stpaultim ,
@stpaultim@fosstodon.org avatar

@feditips

I thought this account was about "Posting hints and tips about Mastodon and the Fediverse."

It seems like it's leveraging this audience to post opinions about Fedi Politics. Opinions that are very personal and divisive within the Fediverse.

I quit following this account a while back, because of this.

Fortunaly, I'm not advocating that anyone deferate from this server. Follow it or don't, it's up to you.

I just don't see these defederation campaigns as healthy.

lawyersgunsnmoney ,
@lawyersgunsnmoney@mstdn.social avatar

@feditips @skykiss My server administrator at mstdn.social just unilaterally opened us up to the list of instances blocking threads is not up to date is there an updated link?

DrAlexandraK ,
@DrAlexandraK@med-mastodon.com avatar
lawyersgunsnmoney ,
@lawyersgunsnmoney@mstdn.social avatar

@DrAlexandraK @feditips @skykiss Yes, indeed I am. Is there an updated version of the list of instances blocking Threads? This is the only one I had, now out of date
https://fedipact.veganism.social/

DrAlexandraK ,
@DrAlexandraK@med-mastodon.com avatar
feditips OP ,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar

@DrAlexandraK @lawyersgunsnmoney @skykiss

The main FediPact list is at https://fedipact.online/ but unfortunately it's not organised into any kind of categories. There are public instances and single user instances mixed together in a big list.

(Hopefully something better will appear soon, just working on something at moment but can't promise anything yet.)

lawyersgunsnmoney ,
@lawyersgunsnmoney@mstdn.social avatar
downey ,
@downey@floss.social avatar

@feditips How quickly people have forgotten (or, weren't around to see!) what we all did with Gab and Truth Social.

The Fediverse would not have had the success we have had, if we had not done so.

This is just the latest bad actor.

periodically_pedantic ,
@periodically_pedantic@mstdn.ca avatar

@feditips defederating threads likely doesn't hurt meta. Federating threads likely doesn't grant them access to data they can't already get.

It only hurts users who aren't as technically savvy as us (so aren't aware of non-meta alternatives), and the folks who want to talk with those people.

I want people to abandon threads, but I can't expect normies to understand the problem and migrate to standard mastodon servers. I think normies are an important part of a healthy social network.

bookstardust ,
@bookstardust@bildung.social avatar

@feditips so, US politics take care of those companies. These are legal platforms used by billions of people every day, even those affected by the human right violations.
The European Union is at least trying to pressure silicon valley companys to change, by forcing them to open up.
But the way is not defederate and cut of people who actually do not want to use Metas products and then permit them to stay in contact with their friends.

Setok ,
@Setok@attractive.space avatar

@feditips I’m extremely disappointed that an account which should be about sharing tips about the Fediverse shares a very subjective POV and call to action. Then it becomes less about helping people in a neutral and friendly way, to being hostile towards certain developments.

urlyman ,
@urlyman@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips I thoroughly recommend this thread on Meta from @kissane and its linked articles (which I’m still working my way through) https://mas.to/@kissane/111576560999174331

davva23 ,
@davva23@kolektiva.social avatar
JoeyPajamas ,
@JoeyPajamas@mastodonapp.uk avatar
MartinaNeumayer ,
@MartinaNeumayer@mastodon.social avatar
jlgatewood ,
@jlgatewood@mastodon.cloud avatar

@feditips

Defederating them isn't solving the problem. You'll just be cutting off their userbase who are regular people like my friends/family who have no idea what the fediverse is but still would like to hear the message overall.
Instead, federate and block certain accounts if they become pesky.

See this for my full reasoning:
https://www.timothychambers.net/2023/06/23/project-and-the.html

uberprutser ,
@uberprutser@vivaldi.net avatar

@feditips I have zero love for Facebook (the company), but excluding them (the users), I don't think that's the best course of action. It might work out mutual beneficial.

stupidjim ,
@stupidjim@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips Is there any way to block as a user?

feditips OP ,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar

@stupidjim

Sort of, but it won't be as effective as a server defederation.

Users blocking a server basically just hides stuff from that server, and removes any follows you have from that server. It's more like closing your eyes to them than actually restricting them.

You can do a "domain block" by clicking on the profile of a person from that server, then clicking ︙ on their profile, and then "block domain".

stupidjim ,
@stupidjim@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips Thanks for the answer!

Difficult question though: would blocking that user be considered 'interacting' and so would Threads get your data when you block them?

feditips OP ,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar

@stupidjim

I'm not sure if servers can even see you've blocked them?

There's nothing in the Masto admin interface for this, at least.

stupidjim ,
@stupidjim@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips Not sure either, but I thought it seemed logic. Then again, I'm not a technical person on this.

Just one more: how can you know if your admin is blocking threads? (like mastodon.social or mstdn.social)

robianhood ,

@feditips @stupidjim, the "about" page has a list.

On my instance a lot of Fediverse servers are either "limited" or "suspended".

feditips OP ,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar

@robianhood @stupidjim

The list is for showing server-level blocks by admins. I think Jim was asking about user-level domain blocks?

robianhood ,

@feditips @stupidjim, oops.. I was too fast.

feditips OP ,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar

@robianhood

No worries, it happens! 😁

stupidjim ,
@stupidjim@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips @robianhood

Actually you were both right. :)

I just wanted to know how to get this threads blocked in any way. Now I can check if my server has it blocked. And if not, then I can block it myself as a user.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

kmstrube81 ,
@kmstrube81@techhub.social avatar

@feditips I worry about the scale it will take to federate content from threads. It could make running an instance that federated with millions of users infeasible, instances that can handle it get more expensive to run and funds dry up for smaller instances as users leave for instances that can handle it.

IgorRock ,
@IgorRock@social.cologne avatar

@feditips As somebody else already wrote on one of your last toots: Leave politics out of an account about tips for the Fediverse!
Feel free to be as politic as you want on your private account, but being biased (even with something you personally see as "valid reason") will only lead to people being put off and stop following your tips.
I am looking forward to finally being able to chat with friends who will ever join Mastodon, without me having to join Threads myself.

blogoklahoma ,
@blogoklahoma@social.tulsa.ok.us avatar

@feditips Gatekeeping are we? They haven't even really federated yet, and you are already calling for a boycott. If an individual wishes to block them, then they can.

angiebaby ,
@angiebaby@mas.to avatar

@blogoklahoma @feditips I don't like the idea of Threads federating and plan to block their server(s) on my personal account, but it seems a bit extreme to block Blog Oklahoma for expressing an opinion.

blogoklahoma ,
@blogoklahoma@social.tulsa.ok.us avatar

@angiebaby @feditips I did accuse them of gatekeeping. They might have taken that badly.

I don't think Threads should be blocked at all. Everyday users there have nothing to do with Meta. If you want to block, your choice, and I stand by your decision.

I've been blocked before and will be again. Mostly from RWNJs. Some people just can't hear different opinions.

sour ,
@sour@kbin.social avatar

@blogoklahoma

@feditips

is bad track record

glowrocks ,
@glowrocks@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips who’s we, kimosabe?

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