California could ban Clear, which lets travelers pay to skip TSA lines ( www.cbsnews.com )

A new bill, the first of its kind in the U.S., would ban security screening company Clear from operating at California airports as lawmakers take aim at companies that let consumers pay to pass through security ahead of other travelers. 

Sen. Josh Newman, a California Democrat and the sponsor of the legislation, said Clear effectively lets wealthier people skip in front of passengers who have been waiting to be screened by Transportation Security Administration agents. 

"It's a basic equity issue when you see people subscribed to a concierge service being escorted in front of people who have waited a long time to get to the front of TSA line," Newman told CBS MoneyWatch. "Everyone is beaten down by the travel experience, and if Clear escorts a customer in front of you and tells TSA, 'Sorry, I have someone better,' it's really frustrating." 

If passed, the bill would bar Clear, a private security clearance company founded in 2010, from airports in California. Clear charges members $189 per year to verify passengers' identities at airports and escort them through security, allowing them to bypass TSA checkpoints. The service is in use at roughly 50 airports across the U.S., as well as at dozens of sports stadiums and other venues.

mp3 ,
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

Good Guy California getting rid of pay-to-win subscription for air travel.

Kbobabob ,

More like pay to get to the gate and sit longer. There is no real winning.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

Or you show up later so you wait the same amount of time at the gate, and you wait less in a line so you can do more things.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Pay to not have to go to the airport two fucking hours early to stand in line for the security theater.

RainfallSonata ,

Either everyone needs TSA screening or we don't need it at all. Get rid of it. Problem solved.

cbarrick ,

Clear doesn't skip screening... It skips to the front of the line to be screened.

Everyone still gets screened.

czech ,

They are also pre-screened and interviewed to get into the program.

cbarrick ,

Yeah, but it doesn't really matter.

The federal government doesn't trust Clear enough to let them into the Precheck line.

dogslayeggs ,

Yes, but that doesn't change anything at all about the actual screening process. That pre-screen and interview only lets them get past the initial line. They still have to do everything like a normal person.

czech ,

I have pre-check but it looks like Clear just cut the pre-check line. Pre-check is more like a pre-911 airport experience. Shoes and jackets typically stay on. If you don't trip the metal detector you're good to go.

bradorsomething ,

They offered me a free skip to get me to try it. I refused… being more wealthy than some people doesn’t make me better than them.

czech ,

Are you sure? There is a 6-month+ wait to schedule an interview for the Clear program in most places. It's not something they can pull you out of line to give you a free trial.. There is a background check and in-person interview as part of the process.

I use pre-check because I travel often for work. That registration process involves bringing in more documentation than is required to normally fly, a background check and fingerprints.

bradorsomething ,

Yes, I was in line at… either SFO or San Bernidino, it’s been a while. They asked if I wanted to try it and I asked what it was, then they said the personal info they wanted and I said no way. They had people walking along their empty line talking to people in the TSA line. The TSA line was actually moving pretty smoothly that day, I bet they got more takers on slow days.

UnpledgedCatnapTipper ,

I also got offered a free trial from Clear a few weeks ago while getting into the security line, but the system wouldn't work properly with my ID (he said it works better with passports, which I wasn't carrying with me) so the rep just had me follow him to the front of the line, gave my ID to the TSA agent, and send me on my way. Clear doesn't appear to need an interview, but pre-check does. You can have just clear to skip the line but not the security check.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Casting call screening I bet.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Which, itself, is infuriating.

Chainweasel ,

What's the fucking point of the TSA if you can just pay extra to bypass it?
It doesn't really seem like a stretch that a terrorist organization could come up with a little extra money per ticket to make sure their plan pays off.

Kit ,

The company runs a background check to verify that the person isn't a terrorist. Then at the airport they use biometrics to verify their identity.

SadSadSatellite ,

Sounds like what tsa should be doing. Either security is necessary or it isn't. The airport is the most classist place in the country.

brygphilomena ,

That's the premise of TSA pre check. Clear just adds biometric verification instead of a TSA agent checking IDs.

Honestly, it's stupid and I've refused to use it because I don't trust companies with that biometric data. I saw TSA try to use similar at an airport once and I specifically opted out.

ryathal ,

Tsa precheck is better than clear anyway. Clear just puts you at the front of the normal line. Precheck allows you to skip the normal line entirely.

fubarx ,

I had to travel with a school group recently so couldn't use Pre. At the front of the TSA line, they took my ID, then had me stand in front of a camera and display screen. It showed it scanning my face and clearly doing face feature segmentation (eyes, nose, hairline, etc).

So that's now happening too.

brygphilomena ,

Yea. That's what I opted out of. Afaik, you still can and it's only in a very small disclaimer right there at the TSA agent.

Nougat ,

Sounds like what tsa should be doing.

That is what TSA is doing. Clear just lets you bypass the TSA Precheck line and go straight to the xray machine and metal detector (they don't use full body scans on that side).

Theoriginalthon ,

Ah so it's for drug trafficking not terrorism

Chocrates ,

TSA has always been security theatre. Have they ever stopped a credible threat?

thesystemisdown ,

I can't believe I'm saying something positive about them, but they keep about 6,500 guns off planes a year. Irrespective of thoughts on gun control measures, I think most would consider a gun on a plane a credible threat.

Chocrates ,

Good to give them credit where it is due. They can be a horrible, mismanaged, institution and still do some good!

rusticus ,

Which could easily be duplicated by metal detectors at the airport entrance. Without disrupting flow of passengers. At far less cost.

It is a security threat to have TSA lines in airports. Any terrorist could walk into the airport security line with a firearm or explosives and kill hundreds of people.

invertedspear ,

We would never know. The thing about the circus that is the TSA is that it does cut people off from even planning to go that route. And the simple fact is that annual hijackings since 2002 are way down.

https://aviation-safety.net/statistics/period/stats.php

WhatsThePoint ,

I don’t trust a private company to do that screening. They will skimp on checks to save money the moment they have a bad quarter unless there are specific rules forced on them by TSA.

modifier ,

Clear sucks and I hate them, but:

I don’t trust a private company to do that screening

There are specific rules forced on them, and the real screening still happens at the checkpoint, by the TSA.

Keep in mind two things:

  1. Prior to the early 2000s, there was so such thing as the TSA, and all airport screening was done by various third parties, though still according to rules set forth by the federal government. But it was just a vendor doing the screening, usually the same vendor that pushes Wheelchairs.

  2. Since it's creation, the TSA has failed audit after audit after audit letting prohibited items through, so they are not a paragon of security

You could argue it's all moot, and this is largely security theater anyway, which wouldn't be fully wrong.

WhatsThePoint ,

I flew before 2001 and man flying was so much faster and easier before TSA. I get it’s not perfect, I just trust something with no profit motive more than companies who will justify anything for a dollar. Either way, I prefer Clear not exist because there is enough pre-paid privilege in the American caste system.

ramble81 ,

So that means the TSA could do the same thing for anyone with Pre-Check or Global Entry since we already had to go through all that.

dumbass , (edited )
@dumbass@leminal.space avatar

Isis: we would love to suicide bomb a plane, but the budgets a bit tight this month and we just can't afford to cover the TSA skip.

cbarrick ,

Clear doesn't bypass TSA. It just skips you to the front of the line.

Nougat ,

It does bypass TSA. The Clear agent goes up to the front of the TSA line, tells the TSA agent "This one is okay, I checked, you don't need to," and through you go.

tarius ,

They take you to the front of the line but, they still need to go through the actual screening (metal detector, bag scanning).

From the clear website: Simply step up to a CLEAR Pod at the airport where you’ll scan your boarding pass and eyes or fingerprints, and an Ambassador will escort you to the front of the security line for your screening.

Nougat ,

The TSA Precheck line for xray and metal detector is far less stringent than the "regular" line. They use metal detectors only, not body scanners. You don't have to take your shoes off or electronics out of your bags. It's like going to the airport in the 1990s.

Clear and its counterparts allow you to have access to that lower level of screening without having TSA Precheck.

dogslayeggs ,

Not at all airports. In LAX and DEN CLEAR only skips you to the front of the normal line, not the TSA Pre line.

bdonvr ,

Unless you already have TSA Pre

dogslayeggs ,

Right, I didn't realize that part when I posted. So the people who skip the TSA Pre line are paying for both, not just Clear. Just paying for Clear only brings you to the front of the normal line.

cbarrick ,

How often do you fly in the United States? That's not how it works.

They walk you up to the front of the ID check line. TSA still checks your ID, and you still go through security.

dogslayeggs ,

It doesn't bypass TSA. Maybe it is different at different airports, but all of the ones I fly through on a regular basis the Clear people only take you to the normal TSA screener, where you still get screened. They don't bypass that screening and they don't take you to the TSA Pre line. In other airports they might take you to the TSA Pre line, but you still get screened there. Just less intense baggage and body scanning.

bdonvr ,

Nope definitely not. I had a one year trial of it. They skip you to the front of the precheck line and you don't need to show ID, but your stuff still needs to go through the xray and you have to go through the detector.

Edit: in some airports I guess it depends on if you have TSA Pre as well which line you get put into the front of.

dream_weasel ,

Yeah CLEAR just needs to be it's own line, no problem. Need to do this with special assistance and higher class of service lines too.

As a person who used to frequently travel for work it's still really annoying to be in a line with people who don't know the rules they paid for even if it's in a separate line. I'm still waiting for the line you have to pass a time trial to get access to.

bradorsomething ,

Clear isn’t a security service, it’s a paid line cutting service so you can go through security in front of people who didn’t pay. They’d never pay for doing actual security, they just want your money and then you still go through TSA.

Your “people who don’t know the process” will still be in front of you, trying to figure out the bins. You paid to be behind other people doing exactly the same thing.

dream_weasel ,

A shorter wait is a shorter wait for one, and the time saving is more valuable than the dollar price. And for two, the TSA isn't doing security either if we are splitting hairs. Clear is no different than pre check except everybody and their brother isn't paying for clear yet: they paid to cut the line, just not as much money.

IDGAF what clear is or is not, and if I gotta pay everybody in line $5 to not have to wait to scan my single shoulder bag I would do that. I would rather spend the extra hour at home with my kids thanks.

gastationsushi ,

Neoliberalism y'all, TSA's equipment and all the services that go along with it are actually revenue streams invented by mega donors. The "free" market in action.

bhmnscmm , (edited )
@bhmnscmm@lemmy.world avatar

Improve TSA? Nah. Let's ban the better system instead.

This is 100% political pandering. It has nothing to do with fixing a real problem.

mosiacmango ,

California is not able to set policy for a federal agency. What they can do is end the "relief value" that lets people skip the bad policies for money.

At that point, the people with money may start putting pressure on the federal government to improve the TSA.

So they are doing exactly what youre asking them to, in the only way they can.

bhmnscmm ,
@bhmnscmm@lemmy.world avatar

No, they're manufacturing outrage by saying "look at those people that are skipping the line, don't you hate that." They're just trying to get popularity points. It's a completely manufactured problem, and they're wasting time and resources that should be spent on real problems.

If TSA lines are a genuine problem that these politicians feel need to be fixed, then they can do plenty of things without Federal TSA policy changes.

mosiacmango ,

So since youre personally a fan of broken govermental systems that private companies use to generate profits at the expense of the the citizens of California, you think state reps should just "shut up and work on the things I think are important" while fully ignoring that this change might have been a direct request from their constituents.

Gotcha.

bhmnscmm ,
@bhmnscmm@lemmy.world avatar

First off, waiting in line at TSA while some people get to skip should be pretty far down the list of problems to fix for any reasonable person. It's unfair, but it doesn't hurt anyone. There are finite resources available to fix problems, so why not fix the problems that actually hurt people every day.

Second off, even if you decide TSA wait times are a high priority problem, this proposal does nothing to fix it. Again, why not spend these resources on reducing wait time for everyone?

All this does is draw attention to people spending their way around an inconvenience, without actually fixing the inconvenience to for ordinary people. It's generating outrage without fixing the problem.

bradorsomething ,

Wait till I release “Even Clearer,” and my customers will skip in front of the Clear people.

IamSparticles ,

Is it actually better security, or just a better experience for the people that are willing/able to pay for it? Maybe we could actually improve the TSA instead of allowing a "skip the line" fee that goes to a private for-profit company?

bhmnscmm ,
@bhmnscmm@lemmy.world avatar

That's 100% my point. Why not fix the problem for everyone instead of banning a solution.

IamSparticles ,

It's not a solution. It's just an alternative ID check currently offering a way for people with more money to skip to the front of the line. They still have to go through the same TSA screening. If everyone used the service it would offer zero benefit. So no, it's not a solution.

bhmnscmm ,
@bhmnscmm@lemmy.world avatar

You've just described how it is a solution; it's additional ID verification capacity.

QuarterSwede ,
@QuarterSwede@lemmy.world avatar

Everyone is beaten down by the travel process

TSA has been proven to be a sham time and time again. They’re ineffective at best. Just get rid of it already.

I also fail to see how this is really any different than paying for TSA pre check. The only main difference is skipping the security line but what difference is that really? Both are paid for services that allow the “rich” (yeah right) to get through security quicker. The real rich aren’t traveling in public transportation. Why don’t we ban private planes?

Oh and no offense to the, mostly, good people working there with the public on the front lines. They’re typically pleasant and great with the kids in my family’s experience.

cbarrick ,

TSA Precheck involves a background check and interview. This allows the actual screening process to be lighter.

Nougat ,

I don't recall an interview, just fingerprinting.

natecox ,
@natecox@programming.dev avatar

I had to go through a full interview to get a TSA precheck. Lots of invasive probing questions about who I am and where I work and what my family ties are.

Nougat ,

My initial application was like eight (?) years ago, I wonder if they've changed it? Maybe they don't interview everyone?

Modern_medicine_isnt ,

Did it this year. Some web forms, then went to a place that finger printed me and checked my ID. That was it.

Nougat ,

Based on this completely ad hoc "survey," that would indicate that they do perform interviews, but not for everyone.

I'm sure there's not any racial profiling going on, no sir.

MedicPigBabySaver ,
@MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world avatar

I'm pasty white and had a TSA pre-check interview about 2.5 years ago.

Waiting on a Global Entry interview.

tarius ,

I had to do an interview for Global Entry, not Precheck

teamevil ,

All the info you submitted before the fingerprints

just_change_it ,

The real rich

What some lower-middle class Americans don't realize is that to the great majority of people in this world... we are the rich.

In the US we look at someone making $75,000+, $100,000+, $150,000+, $250,000+, 500,000+, 1,000,000+, 1,000,000,000+ as rich... depending on what our current income level is. The reality is that even making 30k in the middle of nowhere is still better than 85% of the world's income and quality of living.

If you can save $10,000 a year you can save more than 60% of people in the world actually earn.

When I point this stuff out though I get a ton of downvotes. Imagine buying a car, a plane ticket, or personal electronics when your total pre-tax pay is 10k or less... that is most people's situation who are alive today (but less than 30% of Americans!) As a bonus, imported goods are typically cheaper in the US then almost any other country. Hair Gel that is $5 here is easily $20 USD in Santiago, Chile.

There should be way more taxes on the highest earners and more mechanisms that siphon wealth away from those with extreme excess. Just be aware that Americans overall have the most to lose if this goes to a global scale. A lot of things we take for granted and expect are luxury for billions.

Maggoty ,

And when those people have to live in the US you can make the direct comparison. Go look up PPP. That's why you get downvoted so hard. For example 30k US is 90k in India. Solidly Middle Class but not wealthy. And before you shout about how much 90,000 USD would buy in India, that's not the comparison. The comparison is in lifestyle. So they're living in the US the way a middle class person in India would live. The number just contextualizes it.

Also, using a country that's the dictionary example of monetary and fiscal mismanagement might not be the best way to go.

just_change_it ,

PPP falls apart when you consider the price of consumer electronics, electricity, gasoline, airfare...

In the Dominican Republic you can't get completely stable electricity. It just doesn't happen without generators/batteries. Generators aren't suddenly cheaper in DR. It's 20DOP for 1kwh of electricity in DR, or $0.34 USD/kwh. I pay less in the greater Boston area. Wages there are way, WAY below 30k/year. The thought of having air conditioning at home is practically impossible for almost all who live there.

I love how you nitpicked the chile reference (with no counterpoint whatsoever) but it's true across Latin America. Imported goods to poorer nations generally cost way above and beyond what the US pays...unless it's prescription drugs because almost all other nations negotiate those prices to be much, much less than what the US pays (and only just started negotiating.. for JUST Medicare.) I'm sure there are other examples as well. The PPP is so far apart on imports it's insane. Often times things are sold in the US even if they are made locally because the price in the US is way above and beyond what the locals can afford.

Maggoty ,

And you're not cherry picking? I've been to developing countries. It's not cardboard shacks. Yeah they don't generally have central air and electricity cuts are common. But they have houses, mass transit, good food, bars, smartphones, etc.

Things have improved a lot over the last fifty years. If you want to complain that a bag of Cheetos is expensive and they have to buy Rosquillas de Quesito instead you're not going to find much sympathy among people actually trying to improve lives.

Also, I did provide a counter example. I didn't mention India just for giggles. It's got one of the largest populations that still score as poverty stricken in the global sense. That don't have running water, don't have access to transit, smart phones, healthcare, good jobs, electricity, or safe food.

just_change_it ,

Huge qol improvements in india https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXTZVKYYyig

Maggoty ,

I'm not really a fan of BI for hard info but I checked back in and it looks like they've basically eliminated extreme poverty.

This is the stuff I like to read about -

These include a national mission for construction of toilets and attempts to ensure universal access to electricity, modern cooking fuel, and more recently, piped water. As an example, rural access to piped water in India as of 15th August 2019 was 16.8% and at present it is 74.7%. The reduced sickness from accessing safe water may have helped families earn more income. Similarly, under the Aspirational District Program, 112 districts of the country were identified as having the lowest development indicators. These districts were targeted by government policies with an explicit focus on improving their performance in development.

So yeah, I'm absolutely elated to read that.

just_change_it ,

Man... they use a metric of $2.57/day in 2023 dollars to define the level of extreme poverty? That's $938.05 a year. Just wow.

Maggoty ,

Yeah. When they say extreme poverty they mean it.

teamevil ,

They cut me off at pre check which is really really irritating.

Rexios ,
@Rexios@lemm.ee avatar

So what’s the difference between this and TSA pre check? You have to pay for that too so the money privilege argument makes no sense here.

kaitco ,

This is my exact question, too. I have Pre-Check and I love it because it is like travelling prior to Sept-11.

Pre-Check is cheaper than Clear because it’s like $100 but it lasts for 2-3 years, so again, it’s a separation between those who can pay and those who can’t. Also, what’s next? Every airline removes First, Business, Basic Economy “classes”?

Banning Clear doesn’t resolve the “class” issue. What would be better is to just improve the entire TSA process so that it’s not so miserable for everyone, or let’s get more of those high-speed rails built so we have more travel options and airlines have enough competition to force improvement.

Nougat ,

TSA Pre is $75 for five years.

The problem with services like Clear is that for even more money, you get to skip to the front of the TSA Pre line, too. It also means that a private company (with what kind of oversight, do we even know?) gets to do the security screening instead of TSA.

If you don't think it's all security theater, I don't know what to say.

frickineh ,

Kind of. TSA Precheck is <$100 for 5 years, so it's significantly cheaper. That amount is a lot more accessible to average travelers than CLEAR.

The_v ,

Most people enrolled in those programs are frequent business travelers who charge it to the company.

When I was traveling all the time I did global entry. Since it was for work, I paid for it with my companies credit card. I also did the interview during company hours, drove to the interview in a company vehicle, and paid for parking and lunch on the company dime.

Nobody blinked at the expense. Of course it was the same month I traveled for 3 weeks, hit 5 countries and 10 states. It took me a full day to do my expense report.

cbarrick ,

TSA Precheck involves a background check and interview performed by the government. This allows them to make the actual screening process lighter, because they've deemed you to be low risk.

With Clear, you still have to go through the full security check. And it also costs significantly more.

  • Precheck: $14/y
  • Clear: 190$/y

The cost of TSA Precheck is $70 for 5 years, so $14 per year (plus an additional $8 for the initial enrollment). If you travel internationally a lot you can upgrade to Global Entry for $100 for 5 years. Or if you travel to Canada frequently, you can get Nexus (a superset of Global Entry) at $50 for 5 years.

It's hard to make the money privilege argument with Precheck at that price.

bobburger ,

From what I can tell there are two main differences:

  1. TSA pre check isn't guaranteed; you can have pre check and still be randomly selected for a full screening. Clear you always get a "light" screening.
  2. Pre check you still go through the TSA security, just with a less intensive screening and shorter line. Clear has it's own little security area that bypasses TSA completely

There maybe others, but these seem to be the most important.

dogslayeggs ,

Clear doesn't bypass TSA completely. They just walk you to the front of the TSA screening line.

teamevil ,

These clear assholes are brought to the front of the line skipping everybody.

Chocrates ,

I don't know why clear pisses me off so much but it does. It's just not fair imo, but life isn't fair.

bluGill ,

Because it says you are a second class citizen.

JCreazy ,

Security Theater

rusticus ,

This is on brand. Government thinks the problem is the “for pay” scheme to make the process more tolerable while forcing us into a system (TSA) that has NEVER been shown to prevent anything other than happiness. The problem isn’t with Clear, it is with TSA asshats. How about make a system that works so that no one needs Clear?

ech ,

You are right, but having a system like Clear also incentivizes the whole system to be worse to increase sales. While it's not a whole solution, it's a good move, imo.

rusticus ,

I disagree. Clear gives wealthy an “out” and incentivizes the TSA system to NOT change. Clear is increasing sales but there is no relationship between their sales and TSA. TSA is not incentivized to make Clear more money. It’s a bad move.

OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe ,

I'd day it's still a good move as it prevents inequal wealth resulting in inequality treatment. We should ALL be moved to the front of the TSA line, with no extra cost, or none of us should.

The ultimate solution is a change to TSA that makes it easier to board for everyone, but if the only option is to let people who pay a fee get a leg-up, I'm fine with just banning the whole service.

rusticus ,

You're forgetting the best option: disband TSA. It's never been shown to improve safety and I have always argued it's a greater security risk to congregate all the passengers (before screening) in a central location anyway.

bradorsomething ,

If it gave the wealthy an out it would be $1000/yr. This is trying to onboard everyone cheap, so you either pay clear or wait 2 hours.

rusticus ,

Okay? It’s still a private sector solution to make a public sector shitshow tolerable. How does banning it help the shitshow that is TSA? This was my whole point - government thinks banning Clear is the solution to be “fair” when the problem is TSA. If they fix the TSA shitshow there is no need for Clear.

bradorsomething ,

Let’s reverse the question: how does continuing to allow it not just make the system the same but with a yearly fee attached?

rusticus ,

Because only a small percentage of people use Clear.

Socsa ,

It's doing that to generate a captive customer base so they can add additional tiers later on.

GraniteM ,

If Clear's entire business model is predicated on getting money from people who don't want to deal with the standard security system, then they are 100% incentivized to keep security as unpleasant as possible. Suppose that Congressman Jones introduces the Make TSA Less Horrible Bill. That bill would be an existential threat to Clear, so they would absolutely lobby against it, even though it would objectively improve the lives of everyone who travels. By that same token, if Congressman Chudknuckle wanted a campaign donation from Clear, he might just so happen to introduce the TSA Now Can Stab You in the Ear with an Unfolded Paperclip Bill, and Clear would happily oblige.

Clear may not have created the problem for which they are selling the solution, but they have every incentive in the world to keep the problem as bad as possible, and even make it worse if they can.

rusticus ,

Nothing you have said (which I agree with) disagrees with my comment. Clear only exists because TSA is terrible. Fix TSA and Clear goes away because no one will see value in it. In my airport, Clear is worse than preTSA and many have cancelled their Clear because a better option exists.

PumpkinEscobar ,

Can I ask what the better working system would look like? I've seen plenty of the stories about TSA lapses, obviously security at the airports isn't fun, but I'm not sure what an alternative system that works would look like.

rusticus ,

Disband TSA. It's never been shown to improve safety and I've always argued congregating all the passengers in one place before screening is the greatest security risk in the entire airport. Anybody could walk into the security lines with a gun or explosive device, causing maximal damage.

PumpkinEscobar ,

Just to check, is the suggestion to get rid of TSA and not replace it? i.e. no security screening at the airports?

Is there any country on the planet anymore where that's a thing? Any example of a working version of what you're proposing (if I'm reading it right)?

Also

Disband TSA. It’s never been shown to improve safety

That sounds pretty far from true. The only way this is true is if TSA procedures have never prevented a single gun, bomb, etc... past a security checkpoint.

As reported by the TSA they stopped 6737 firearms, 93% of them loaded from getting into secure areas... in 2023 alone. They also conducted a passenger survey where 93% of passengers said they were satisfied with experience, 94% confident in TSA's ability to keep air travel secure

Conducted a passenger experience survey with a sample size of 13,000 travelers at multiple airports across the nation. Survey results revealed that 93% of travelers were satisfied with the passenger experience and 94% of the respondents were confident in TSA’s ability to keep air travel secure.

I'm not sure what percentage of the 93% would feel the same way, but I will say if the TSA went away tomorrow with no replacement I'd no longer be flying on any airline that was unscreened.

Malfeasant ,

Yes, and when the cops investigate themselves, they find no wrongdoing.

rusticus ,

You’ve obviously never taken a high speed train in the EU.

jumjummy ,

Are you trying to compare rail to air travel in terms of risk? Last time I checked into it, nobody hijacked a train and drove it into buildings.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

except when they do.

Here's an from when an antivax loonie did basically that: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/02/825897966/train-engineer-says-he-crashed-in-attempt-to-attack-navy-hospital-ship-in-l-a

jkrtn ,

I want Clear gone along with everything else trying to scan my face. They all need to fuck off.

rusticus ,

Agreed. Ban all of it, including TSA.

Not_mikey ,

Yeah, but the best way to get something like this to improve is to make rich people suffer through it too. Letting them bypass a system like this allows them, and the politicians who cater to them, to ignore the issue.

Its like when segregation ended and white kids were being sent to the black schools and tons of money poured into the schools as the white parents realized the conditions there kids would have to suffer through. Like tsa the ultra wealthy just went to private schools/jets but the broad middle to upper middle class still has a lot of sway politically and can change broken systems like this, if it effects them.

rusticus , (edited )

Yeah, but the best way to get something like this to improve is to make rich people suffer through it too.

Nothing like holding the lowest bar possible for TSA. Disband it. It's never been shown to make anything safer. I have always argued that making thousands of people congregate in lines is a far greater security risk (firearm/explosive device) than anywhere else in the airport. And those lines are NOT screened for weapons at the airport entrance.

GiddyGap , (edited )

Every country in the world has something similar to the TSA. It's an awful experience everywhere. But pay-to-win is not something I approve of in general, and certainly not in the security line.

rusticus ,

You obviously have not been on high speed trains in the EU

GiddyGap ,

I certainly have. Most EU countries are part of the Schengen area, which often doesn't have security at borders. You'll encounter the Schengen "TSA" at external border. Also not a very pleasant experience.

Malfeasant ,

TSA screening is required for every flight, domestic as well as international. So no, not every country has an equivalent. Yes they all have some sort of airport security, but no they're not as invasive and ineffective as the TSA.

GiddyGap ,

Yes, they are as invasive in my experience.

rusticus ,

You obviously have never taken a high speed train in the EU.

There is essentially zero security at the train stations in the EU. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

GiddyGap ,

We're talking about the equivalent to the TSA, which is at airports. Not train stations.

rusticus ,

No we're talking about risks and benefits of having or not having TSA, which was a knee jerk response to 9/11 which has become excessive. Trains have risk (Madrid 2004) yet have virtually no security. Any reasonable person would agree that the amount of security at airports is excessive and can be done in a much more efficient and safe manner.

Socsa ,

They literally have the same security as trains in the US.

sylver_dragon ,

I'm all for doing a risk based analysis of people and having a higher or lower level of scrutiny based on that analysis. "Ability to pay" shouldn't be part of that analysis. Of course, given the history of problems with building such system, I also don't expect that the TSA (or any group) is going to do well building a risk based system which isn't:
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/044/241/skincover.jpg

Maggoty ,

Hilariously, I constantly get pulled for secondary. On my last trip they had us in a separate line and I finally made the connection. We were all guys that ran hot. It's the old heat=sweat=nervous idea. So a calm terrorist wouldn't get caught by their automatic secondary selection system. Like someone about to commit suicide that's made peace with their decision.

teamevil ,

I stopped getting pulled out for secondary scan after I asked if it said asshole next to my name. I'm fine if it does but I'd like to know. And no extra scans.

Zink ,

This seems like a good step. If the security bottleneck is mandated for all of us by the government, then people who don’t like it should work to improve it. Though I guess the owner class proper doesn’t really have to deal with any of it, with special processes to get to private jets.

But, this is also air travel we’re talking about. Every single step of the process to get from A to B is as enshittified and monetized as possible. Zero surprise that it’s the same with security.

HobbitFoot ,

The alternative is air travel goes back to the old days when every ticket is first class and a large segment of society can't afford to fly.

afraid_of_zombies ,

The alternative is we break up the monopoly, ban stock buybacks, pass minimum standards of comfort, and suggest to the airlines that if they are short on cash they cut executive salaries.

There is no excuse for it. I have flown outside the US twice the past 9 months alone and will fly at least 3 more times abroad before Dec of this year. Consistently the US domestic is the most awful way to fly. Flown on airlines that are very much 3rd world where I had more space and better quality airline food all for less money.

Also the Germans got it right. Loaded up last passenger? Close the doors and start taxing. None of this bullshit about everyone must have sat down for 45 minutes before the plane moves.

HobbitFoot ,

The third world airlines are generally subsidized by the local governments to maintain connectivity.

The EU deregulated its airline industry about two decades after the USA and it is going down the same path. Some flag carriers have gone out of business and the market is becoming saturated with low cost airlines that make Southwest feel like luxury in comparison. Even then, the EU has benefits that the USA doesn't have like no fuel tax and plenty of airports in comparison to the USA.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Just do whatever needs to happen to fix it. I don't care. I shouldn't be in misery flying from coast to coast and in luxury flying from Vietnam to Thailand. It's bullshit that the country that invented air travel has airlines this bad.

afraid_of_zombies ,

I fly a lot. About a year ago I was going back from a business trip and my flight was cancelled. So get an Uber to the nearest hotel, have a few restaurant meals, and fly out the next day. All in all about 300 dollars extra and the money means nothing to me since it isn't mine and the project is in the millions of dollars. As we are taking off I was just sitting there thinking about the poor bastards yesterday flying for fun with their kids. How devastating a flight cancelling can be for them. Little things like telling people there flight was cancelled earlier would save those people so much money.

Waldowal ,
@Waldowal@lemmy.world avatar

Seems good, but if you are trying to make airport screening more equitable, why just Clear? What about "Sky Priority" and "Precheck"? I'm wondering if the airlines are lobbying for this.

BreakDecks ,

"Sky Priority" is just a Delta thing, on par with any Airline loyalty program perk. You're not getting airlines to give up their perks so easily, and I don't think there's a compelling reason to target those programs.

Pre-Check requires a background check and fingerprinting, and actually serves to make TSA's job easier by routing some percentage of eligible travelers through a checkpoint with more relaxed security processes.

Clear is a bit different in that it is a private for-profit program that primarily grants users a fast-track through a mandatory government process. That's a bit unethical. Though I do enjoy it for skipping the line at sporting events...

teamevil ,

Seriously..Clear is some bullshit...

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