protonmail ,
@protonmail@mastodon.social avatar

If you think big fines work on , think again.

Google, Apple, Meta, Amazon, and Microsoft generated enough revenue in the past 7 days to pay off their fines for 2023.

Taking advantage of your privacy is so lucrative, that these fines are nothing more than the cost of doing business.

🧵1 / 3

jake4480 ,
@jake4480@c.im avatar

@protonmail that's why big companies need to be SPLIT UP when they get too big. The FTC should do more of that, but they don't.

protonmail OP ,
@protonmail@mastodon.social avatar

Big tech fines in 2023 totalled $3bn for breaking laws on both sides of the Atlantic.

Here's a breakdown of long it took them to pay off their respective fines:

🔎 Google: $941 million – 1 day 4 hours
📦 Amazon: $111.7 million – 2 hours
👓 Meta: $1.72 billion – 5 days 13 hours
🍏 Apple: $186.4 million – 4 hours
🪟 Microsoft: $84 million – 3.5 hours

🧵 2 / 3

protonmail OP ,
@protonmail@mastodon.social avatar

It's you, the consumer, that's losing out – it's your privacy that's at risk when puts their profits first. That means higher prices, less choice, and no privacy.

💰 Fines paid by Proton in 2023: $0.

End-to-end encryption makes it impossible for us to access or collect your data with Proton Mail, Proton Calendar, Proton Drive, Proton VPN and Proton Pass.

aes256 ,
@aes256@social.linux.pizza avatar

@protonmail What is the purpose of getting rid of BigTech services when ProtonMail itself forces you to use the Google services in order to receive ANY notifications?

On the one hand, you spit on BigTech, and on the other hand, you make life difficult for users who ACTUALLY care about privacy (Anyone who doesn't have GSF installed on their Android phone knows what I'm talking about....)

Natanox ,
@Natanox@chaos.social avatar

@aes256 @protonmail Sadly there is no proper open-source implementation for push notifications yet that would be simple to implement. It would have to be integrated in Android ROMs, using a common standard shared by apps (or at least an alternative drop-in replacement for microG). Otherwise it's pointless. 😐

Do the Proton apps at least work without them?

Clover ,
@Clover@akko.wtf avatar

@Natanox @aes256 @protonmail use unified push! http://unifiedpush.org/

You just use one push provider that you can host yourself for all of the apps that support it

Natanox ,
@Natanox@chaos.social avatar

@Clover @protonmail @aes256 Oh, is it finished enough by now to be usable? I saw this one being developed a while ago!

Clover ,
@Clover@akko.wtf avatar

@Natanox @protonmail @aes256 it's very useable yeah, if the app implements it then it just works™ generally, the issue now is that not many apps have it implemented

dazo ,
@dazo@infosec.exchange avatar

@aes256 @protonmail

This indicates some of the progress in this aspect ... https://mastodon.social/@larma/111544814533021329

Proton inventing their own stand-alone notification service for only their own services will be a scalability challenge with 100+ million users. And likewise the complaints of Proton apps suddenly draining a lot more battery.

protonmail OP ,
@protonmail@mastodon.social avatar

@dazo @aes256 Thanks for the feedback, it has been passed along to the team. For now, push notifications are end-to-end encrypted and we provde the APKs here: https://protonapps.com/

mdwalters ,
@mdwalters@furry.engineer avatar

@protonmail @dazo @aes256 damn my wish came true

arw ,
@arw@mas.to avatar

@protonmail like and appreciate what Proton is doing, but the Android app in particular is woefully feature poor and forward progress is glacial.

protonmail OP ,
@protonmail@mastodon.social avatar

@arw Hi there, we have a rewritten android app currently in beta.

arw ,
@arw@mas.to avatar

@protonmail From November 22, 2022, hence glacial.

vjprema ,
@vjprema@fosstodon.org avatar

@protonmail

This shows how much power we have as users to make these guys really hurt just by not using their products or by using alternatives.

e.g.:

Healing from your own consumerism will not only make you happier, it hurts Amazon.

Meta is mostly addiction-ware. Work on your inner self and you wont need it. Again life gets better. OK Whatsapp is good.

Block ads and tracking = hurt Google.

I never use Apple. It is nice tho 😅.

Microsoft makes nothing of value. Just use Mac or Linux 😛

kkarhan ,
@kkarhan@social.tchncs.de avatar

@protonmail pressing X for doubt

There's a reason noone should trust you!m eother!

Just compling with isn't enough...

of Keys is essential!!!

protonmail OP ,
@protonmail@mastodon.social avatar

@kkarhan

Proton's servers don't hold your private key directly — it is generated client-side and stored encrypted with your password.

You can also import your own keys: https://proton.me/support/pgp-key-management. That way, you can stay in full control of your keys.

kkarhan ,
@kkarhan@social.tchncs.de avatar

@protonmail That's still not self-custody of keys as you still store it on your systems - whether that's encrypted or not doesn't matter...

I'll exercise self-custody and publish my pubkey instead.

After all, I'm well set with a provider that doesn't upsell me on false security promises trying to bamboozle ...

simotenas ,
@simotenas@fedi.aroundthemilkyway.nohost.me avatar

@protonmail wondering if they ever get to pay all these fines.

Npars01 ,
@Npars01@mstdn.social avatar
Itchy ,
@Itchy@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@protonmail
Pfft.

dzwiedziu ,
@dzwiedziu@mastodon.social avatar

@protonmail
I see it this way: the base modifier on fines should rise (automatically, codified) for each company by the amount how fast they made back the fines, and the maximum cap to match the top earner.

F.e.:
Google's base modifier should go up 312.86 times (365×24/(24+4)).
Maximum cap: Amazon made 55.85/h. So the cap should from this year be 489.246×10³ billion (yep, almost 500 trillion US unfunny-money).

P.S. Do check my math, just in case.
CC: Europarlament

forteller ,
@forteller@tutoteket.no avatar

@protonmail It's a problem that media reports these fines in absolute numbers. They sound so big, they risk getting people to sympathize with the tech companies and turn against the governments, much like that famous McDonald's coffee incident. They should report them as percentages of income or, as you, as time.

davep ,
@davep@infosec.exchange avatar

@protonmail
Reminder that Protonmail is under Swiss jurisdiction and foreign governments can request metadata such as who you sent emails to, IP addresses, and date and time, as the French did for ecological activists, and got it.

protonmail OP ,
@protonmail@mastodon.social avatar

@davep Let us also clarify that all communication services are legislated to a degree in every country and that Swiss legislation is superior to most when it comes to privacy. Additionally, Proton contests every legal request we can, and we have also strengthened the protection of our users' privacy through a court victory against the Swiss government: https://proton.me/blog/court-strengthens-email-privacy

xvf17 ,
@xvf17@sfba.social avatar

@protonmail There's no source cited for any of this information.

protonmail OP ,
@protonmail@mastodon.social avatar
TagHunt ,
@TagHunt@infosec.exchange avatar

@protonmail

My suggestion to world legislators:

Fine big tech more and invest that money in reaching climate goals.

dougiec3 ,
@dougiec3@libretooth.gr avatar

@protonmail
People can't fathom the kind of money involved here. The laws are archaic.

chrastecky ,
@chrastecky@phpc.social avatar

@protonmail That's why I love the way EU was going with fines as percentage of global revenue. That has the potential to actually hurt them.

squeakypancakes ,
@squeakypancakes@sunbeam.city avatar

@protonmail States don't protect us from capital. :anarchism:

mdwalters ,
@mdwalters@furry.engineer avatar

@protonmail how many do YOU have to pay off

protonmail OP ,
@protonmail@mastodon.social avatar

@mdwalters None :)

mdwalters ,
@mdwalters@furry.engineer avatar
DavidM_yeg ,
@DavidM_yeg@mstdn.ca avatar

@protonmail

Corporate fines should always be proportional to gross receipts. That’s the only way to make them truly deterrent.
Take all the ‘law and order’ measures that conservatives promote for actual people and apply the to corporations: punitive fines and penalties that leave the payor destitute, the death penalty… I’m good with all of it for fictional ‘persons’.

cbt ,
@cbt@snabelen.no avatar

@protonmail i have grand respect for protonmail. But this is populism.

Facebook has now inserted a paid option because of the lawsuit in Norway, that pushed forward the effect of EU law.

This post hinges on the belief that the stuff that the laws are ment towards are so valuable that the big tech will rather break the laws to make an additional profit. This is simply not true.

I think Proton is so good that it doesn't need to grasp so low.

unlucio ,
@unlucio@mastodon.social avatar

@protonmail seems like a big absolute number, but they don't seem to have learned any lessons tho. Perhaps they need bigger fines.

y9i ,
@y9i@suma-ev.social avatar

@protonmail Seems like the problem is that these fines aren't actually big. Just because $1 billion seems like a lot in comparison to a personal budget, doesn't mean it's a big fine for the likes of GAFAM. $1 billion should be on the low side when it comes to fines for them, but unfortunately we see it as big.

soop ,
@soop@wetdry.world avatar

@protonmail ...would bigger fines do the trick?

Psionmark ,
@Psionmark@mastodon.social avatar

@protonmail Maybe time to start fining them on the basis of how quickly they can pay it off? e.g. they get fined, say, a years profits based on the last years figures, regardless of what that sum is. That might make them pause?

damngoodtech ,
@damngoodtech@mastodon.social avatar

@protonmail Agreed. I think we need to stop trying to financially punish these big tech companies. They have lawyers that are smarter, faster, and better than elected officials and will find ways around regulation each and every time.

The regulations only hurt the little guy that just happened to be in the line of fire.

Instead, I think we should work to foster innovative companies that are finding unique solutions to combat big tech's invasive practices.

Yes, Proton, you are one of those. 😁

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