I found a way to write the #Filipino leading sound /ŋ/ (Ng̃) in #Hangeul by “reviving” an obsolete Jamo.
(NOTE: the samples below are using the Pilipino Hangeul [work-in-progress] adaption/rules.)
Ex:
ᅌᅡ욘 (nga·yon) = EN: today
ᅌᅵ삔 (ngi·pin) = EN: tooth
I also separated (R) and (L), like how they did in the #Ciacia language.
Same character: ᄙ
Ex:
빠다ᄙᅡᆺ닷 (pa·ta·las·tas) = EN: commercial
ᄙᅡ밧 (la·bas) = EN: outside; go out (depending on usage)
I was thinking of using another obsolete Jamo (ᅏ) for the /t͡s/ (Ts) sound, but ㅊ /t͡ɕʰ/ (Ch) can fulfill that role as well.
Ex:
차차 (cha·cha) = short form of “charter change”; or the dance chacha.
초꼬라데 (tso·ko·la·te) = EN: chocolate
차아 (tsa·a) = EN: tea
Ññ (enye) is, for now, transliterate.
For the Kr sound, like in “krus”, maybe we can use ㅋ since we don't have a /kʰ/ (Kh) sound in Filipino.
Vowels like Filipino “Ee” which can be either /ɛ/ (ae) or /e/ (e).
This one is tricky because the Filipino “Ee” sound can change depending on, for example, a person want to deliver a word with endearment, but the meaning never changes. So an /e/ sound can become an /ɛ/ sound, while retaining its meaning.
I actually had no idea about this “Ee” /e/ (e) vs /ɛ/ (ae). The way Filipino vowels are taught in school is simply, well, /e/ (e). But the more I read online resources, the more I learn that we do make an /ɛ/ (ae) sound for the same vowel! How crazy is that?!
> "When I was your age.." is the number 1 thing people hate hearing in Korea.
> People will never make conversations with you ever again.
> Simple
>
> @kenjikundesu
It is similar here in the #Philippines. You don't say, “When I was your age…”, if you want to share information about your time, you say, “Back in my day…”
In English, it doesn't make any sense. However, the local language equivalent of those two phrases comes with it:
Language nuances; and
Cultural factors.
Why?
“When I was your age…” in our local languages:
Language nuances = the delivery is different; the tone; the speech; and
Cultural factors = often used to demean, look down upon, another person (the younger in this case). It implies that, “I am/We are better than you”.
However, “Back in my day…” in our local languages:
Language nuances = the delivery, tone, speech, is different, it is friendlier and open for discussion/sharing; and
2 Cultural factors = not used to look down on anyone.
In the English language, these two phrases are the same, neutral, and thus won't make sense. But not in many Asian languages and cultures.
In addition, while both Filipino and Korean cultures have a deeply embedded respect levels in languages and actions, there is no room for older people to abuse it. We won't show it to you, because again, deeply embedded respect culture. But you can guarantee we're talking behind your back, and in today's world, chatrooms.
Back in my day, in the 80s and 90s, we say, “talk to the hand” and the equivalent action is stretching our arms, showing our palms forward to your face.
Obviously, we don't do that to people older than us. We do it while we're talking about you with our friends.
Today, in the present, at least here in the Philippines, we say, “Whateva'”, with a hand gesture and facial expression. Of course, we do it behind your back, or in chatrooms.
If you're a foreigner learning an Asian language, well, like in any other country, you'll be given a free pass. But, you better learn fast, you never know when you'll be misunderstood (unless you really want to be rude).
(There are actually more nuances in Filipino languages than Korean, for this particular case. And there is a worse way, too!)
There are very few choices of online translation services that offer translations from and into #Tagalog (sometimes listed as #Filipino even though they are not exactly the same).
How few? #Bing and #Google are the go to online translation services; and that's about it. Popular neural translation services like Naver Papago, DeepL, and Reverso, are yet to offer Tagalog and Filipino translations.
However, there is one that is actually doing it better than Bing and Google, that is Yandex Translation — https://translate.yandex.com.
Translating Tagalog into another language.
So far, my only gripe is that Yandex translates it into past tense. It appears that Yandex still doesn't understand the Tagalog tenses in this translation direction (it does understand tenses when translating into Tagalog).
If you don't understand Tagalog, you also will not notice the tense was changed because the translation into your own language is correct as far as past tense is concerned.
Translating another language into Tagalog.
This one is good. At least based on what I have tested, tenses were preserved. Depending on the source language, the choice of words might be weird, but it makes sense regardless, from a native Tagalog speaker (maybe not for someone learning Tagalog, or Filipino).
Here are sample texts:
First, this is how it should be in Tagalog (compare the translation to this one if you're not familiar with Tagalog or Filipino):
> Hiniling ni Rielene kay John na bumili ng kanilang lingguhang pangangailangan sa supermarket kahapon. Pumunta siya sa pinakamalapit na supermarket ng isang mall; at pagkatapos ay binisita niya ang sinehan ng mall para tignan ang pinakabagong mga pelikula.
>
> Ngayong araw, ang mag-asawa na sina Rielene at John ay masayang magkasamang nanonood ng sci-fi movie na pinamagatang, “Hollow Earth of the Apes: The Scar Wars”.
English (source):
> Yesterday, Rielene asked John to go buy their weekly necessities in the supermarket. He visited supermarket of the nearby mall; and afterwards, he visited the mall's cinema to check the latest movies.
>
> Today, the couple, Rielene and John, are watching the sci-fi film entitled, “Hollow Earth of the Apes: The Scar Wars”, and are enjoying their time together.
Korean (through Naver Papago):
> 어제 릴렌은 존에게 슈퍼마켓에 주간 필수품을 사러 가자고 했습니다. 존은 근처 쇼핑몰의 슈퍼마켓을 방문했고, 그 후, 최신 영화를 확인하기 위해 쇼핑몰의 영화관을 방문했습니다.
>
> 오늘, 릴렌과 존 커플은 "속이 빈 지구: 흉터 전쟁"이라는 제목의 공상과학 영화를 보고 함께 시간을 즐기고 있습니다.
Polish (through DeepL):
> Wczoraj Rielene poprosiła Johna, aby poszedł do supermarketu kupić cotygodniowe artykuły pierwszej potrzeby. John odwiedził supermarket w pobliskim centrum handlowym, a następnie udał się do kina w centrum handlowym, aby sprawdzić najnowsze filmy.
>
> Dziś para, Rielene i John, ogląda film science-fiction zatytułowany "Wydrążona Ziemia Małp: Wojny Blizn" i cieszy się wspólnie spędzonym czasem.
Hebrew (through Yandex):
> אתמול ביקשה רילין מג ' ון ללכת לקנות את צרכיהם השבועיים בסופרמרקט. הוא ביקר בסופרמרקט של הקניון הסמוך; ולאחר מכן, הוא ביקר בקולנוע של הקניון כדי לבדוק את הסרטים האחרונים.
>
> היום, הזוג, רילין וג ' ון, צופים בסרט המדע הבדיוני שכותרתו "ארץ חלולה של הקופים: מלחמות הצלקת", ונהנים מהזמן שלהם יחד.
It's easier to use Hangeul and Kana to write pronunciations of Filipino words, than to use Filipino diacritical marks.
Last we were taught about Filipino diacritical marks was in Grade 4 or 5 (early 90s). I don't know why, but after that diacritical marks were totally forgotten.
Tracking it down, IIRC, it was late 90s / early 00s when it was officially removed by the KWF.
Sometime 2010, the KWF brought diacritical marks back, though limited.
In 2014 (or was it 2016?) the KWF introduced a new diacritical mark, the Filipino schwa. It didn't exist before. There are only like 4 Philippine languages with a schwa vowel. They added it in Filipino so words from those Philippine languages can be integrated into the Filipino language.
Here's my problem, no matter how many times I read the KWF document on Filipino diacritical marks, I can't get my head around it. 🤪 I understood it differently, or I remembered them incorrectly. 🤷🏽♂️ Or! I've been pronouncing a lot of words wrongly! 🤦🏽♂️
However, when I use Hangeul and Kana, I don't have to worry about diacritical marks. Both scripts have stable pronunciations, not like Latin characters where we have to use diacritical marks.
The only catch, the reader should be able to read Hangeul or Kana scripts, which most don't. 🤔 So, back to trying to get a grasp of Filipino diacritical marks. 🤯
Am I right that the Filipino diacritical marks represent the sound?
Examples:
e = neutral = abrupt soft stop?
è = high to low = abrupt hard stop? (paiwa?)
é = low to high = malumay? (malumanay?)
ê = low to high to low = ??
ë = the new Filipino schwa (no idea, since I don't speak the few Philippine languages where a Filipino schwa is needed).
Any experts out there?
(In the revived diacritical marks, we no longer use ē. IIRC, it used to represent a long vowel sound.)
“kami” = speaker + their group = “we” in Philippine English = no equivalent in any other English variant (in a way, it can be similar to the “royal ‘we’”)
Depending on the sentence structure, “us” is also equivalent. However…
“tayo” = speaker + listener (+ their group) = “we” in Philippine English = “we” in any other English variant.
“Us” can also be used depending on the context.
So, when talking to a Filipino, or anyone who learned Philippine English (like most Koreans and Japanese), check first what they meant by “we”, as it could either be “speaker + their group” or “speaker + listener (+ their group)”.
It can become a point of misunderstanding because of the difference in usage, as English doesn't have a separate word for those two scenarios of “we”/“us”, not like in Filipino, Tagalog, and other languages.
(P.S. And this is why it is important to always ask for the context first before arguing or “reporting”.)
How about in your native #language? Do you have separate words for these?
@net They use peso in the Philippines, which was originally a Spanish colony, a sister country to Mexico. Tagalog ( pronounced tah-cal-oh ) the national language ( or Filipino) still has a lot of Spanish words in it..👍
@wlf_warren@net The pronunciation is ta-ga-log (o as in lo not lag). The etymology of "Tagalog" is "taga ilog" or in English "of the river" or "taga tabing ilog", which is in English "of the riverbanks".
"ilog" is ee-log (o as in lo)
^_^
Also, the #Filipino language is actually a separate language than #Tagalog. The Filipino language is a #conlang. It was primarily based on Manileño or the Manila dialect of Tagalog. There are other dialects of Tagalog, like Batangeño as spoken in Batangas; and Marinduqueño as spoken in Marinduque.
Batangas is generally known as the birthplace of Tagalog. But recent discoveries and studies has shown the actual birthplace was in Western Marinduque. Marinduqueño, to this day, retains almost all the rules of original Tagalog as well as many of what Manileño speakers considers "old Tagalog" words. Marinduqueño is so preserve, if they speak in pure original Tagalog, those in Manila and those who speak Filipino (since it as was based on Manileño), will barely understand them.
Back to Filipino. Since it was created, it already diverged from Manileño a lot.
The confusion is because Manileño, or the Manila dialect of Tagalog, is practically gone and replaced by Filipino. However, one cannot say that Batangeño, Caviteño (Cavite Tagalog), Marinduqueño, to mention a few other Tagalog dialects, are the same as Filipino or was replaced. That did not happen. Only Manileño was replaced and forgotten.
Lastly, Filipino is the National language. While Tagalog is one of eight "Major Languages" as stated in our 1987 Constitution (current).