@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social cover
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Teri_Kanefield

@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social

Former appellate defender and UC Berkeley Law graduate. My practice was limited to representing indigents on appeal.

I’ve written more than a dozen books and published more than 50 short pieces in The Washington Post, Cnn.com, and others. My book prizes include the Jane Addams Book Award.

Tfr

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timothyjohnson , to Random stuff
@timothyjohnson@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@Teri_Kanefield
If People v. Trump finds him guilty, what are his options for appeals?

Teri_Kanefield ,
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@timothyjohnson

I wouldn't know without reading the record.

When I received a case on appeal, the record would hundreds, or thousands, of pages in length. I would spend about a week reading, combing for possible issues, then research the issues and decide.

cherold , to Random stuff
@cherold@zirk.us avatar

@Teri_Kanefield says we don't need legal pundits, and at first I thought, of course we need someone who understands how the legal system works and can tell us what's what. But then she wrote

"...lawyers confuse people. Confused people then turn to lawyers for explanations."

And I realized that if pundits quit saying the legal system was corrupt, we wouldn't keep asking, "is this corrupt behavior?" We would just ... follow what happens and see how it turns out.

https://terikanefield.com/beware-the-lawyers-follow-up/

Teri_Kanefield ,
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@cherold

Someone wrote to me and asked, "Don't we need legal pundits to tell us what the facts mean?"

But when people want to know what something "means" they are usually asking for a scorecard assessment: Does it help our team?

This is the opposite of learning about the legal system. People start rooting for destructive policies if they think it will hurt Trump.

Teri_Kanefield ,
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@emma @cherold

you don't need a lawyer to answer that question.

Teri_Kanefield , to Random stuff
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When people show me hostility, they often speak in the first person plural.

(I blocked this person, so don't pile on him.)

It's group think. It's also mob-like to think that a group of citizens can change the pace or outcome of a criminal investigation.

Teri_Kanefield , to Random stuff
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

Hi, Fediverse:

Whew. I finished this week's blog post. Do your thing, Mastodon.

https://terikanefield.com/beware-the-lawyers-follow-up/

It's a follow up from last week, answering some of the questions and comments I got.

In response to people telling me that I am overestimating the ability of people to decode legal news, I attempt to prove this hypothesis:

If people stop listening to legal pundits speculating, they wouldn’t feel confused and they wouldn’t think they need help from lawyers decoding the news.

1/

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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(I hope that made sense. I've been working on this since early morning 😂)

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@sswerdloff See. I can count on Mastodon. Thanks.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@nadams I'm not seeing the error. (me tired)

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@nadams Right but I don't see what is wrong with it.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@WearsHats Got it.

Sheesh I told you I'm tired.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@JonChevreau

my goal wasn't to make people feel better about Cannon.

My goal was to get people to see that much of the BS coming out of that echo chamber is embarrassing.

It's definitely getting worse. I've written it off as hopeless.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@smurthys

Facepalm. What a clown.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@Kencf618033 Yes, assignments are random. Particulars are different in each jurisdiction. Each court has their own rules.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@Kencf618033 It was re-assigned to Cannon because she was already familiar with the case. The fact that she was overturned wouldn't figure in. All these judges have heavy caseloads so they will reassign to the judge already familiar because it is more efficient.

Teri_Kanefield , to Random stuff
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

When the prosecution rests in the Manhattan case, I plan to read the transcripts so far looking for evidence that supports the elements of particular crimes.

This is my thing: Reading trial transcripts. My job was reading trial transcripts looking for appealable errors.

Shall I tell you my favorite moment in a transcript?

The defendant (yes, my client) walked in to court with baggy pants. The judge (a woman) was offended and angry. She thought the defendant was disrespecting her.

1/

Teri_Kanefield OP , (edited )
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

She was so angry that the prosecutor felt bad for the young man and came to his defense. (It's hard to read emotion in a transcript, but she was obviously furious for the prosecutor to come to his defense.)

First the defense lawyer tried to explain that it was (unfortunately) the current fashion.

The prosecutor confirmed that it is a fashion.

The judge said, "Well. It's a fashion felony." (Reading it, I could allmost 'hear' her sputtering.)

I adopted the phrase "fashion felony."

2/

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

(I know. He shouldn't have been in court in baggy pants. I assume that the trial lawyer learned to explain things like that ahead of time.)

They were probably very, very baggy, I assume indecently baggy.

3/

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@rdnielsen I laughed out loud.

Teri_Kanefield , to Random stuff
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Now that my son (the youngest) is 20 and in college, he will occasionally ask me for writing advice.

After looking at his thesis and intro: "Good set up! Now you need to think of a bunch of smart things to say."

(It's an art history class comparing paintings)

😂

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@dougfir

This is an art history class. He is doing something called Speculative Design at UC San Diego.

He is a talented artist who didn't want to do "just art" which he informed me is "just to look at."

He wanted to design "big" things.

This is housed in the visual arts, but combines city planning, solving problems for the future, etc.

Teri_Kanefield , (edited ) to Random stuff
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Okay, I wrote the blog post I said I'd write: A more thoughtful explanation of why I refused to answer a few questions this week.

It's here: https://terikanefield.com/beware-the-lawyers/

This blog post could have been called “Why you don’t need a lawyer to answer your questions about legal issues in the news.”

Mostly it’s about former TV pundit Peter Arenella’s piece that I posted earlier.

If you get the error message, this is why:
https://news.itsfoss.com/mastodon-link-problem/

Just wait a minute and try again.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@kkeller A few weeks ago I read and analyzed the opening statements (the transcripts are posted on the court website) and I came to the same conclusion. At least in the opening statements, there was no clear statement of a theory of the case.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@JonChevreau Of course, but do you see the problem?

The moment I wade in, I have to bring the receipts to show why I am going against the accepted narrative, and that is not only time consuming, the task is endless.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@JonChevreau I toned it down and took out the "loaded question" comment.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
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@JonChevreau

I didn't know the extent of the meltdown, but I suspected something was happening.

Teri_Kanefield , to Random stuff
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I am getting questions across a few soical media sites about the ongoing trials.

I gave some quick answers about the problems with this.

Maybe, for my next blog post, I should offer a more thoughtful and thorough answer about what a lawyer can actually say that is valuable as a trial progresses.

It will probably appeal to my geekiest readers and annoy everyone else.

Maybe I should call it: "Beware the Lawyers." (Like "beware the Ides of March" but worse.)

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@rdnielsen

The point I will make is that much of the running commentary adds nothing at all of value. One former pundit I admire thinks some of it may be unethical.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@rdnielsen

I see, yes. You're talking about the appealable issue of allowing in irrelevant and highly predjucial materials.

There are limits on what a lawyer can imply or insinuate actually. More specifically, this can create an appealable issue. Whether the issue will win on appeal is a different matter because the standards of review are stacked against the appellant.

Teri_Kanefield OP ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@EllenJS @rdnielsen

HAHA I posted a paper he wrote in 1998 I think about a week ago. He said I can call him a friend :)

mastodonmigration , to Random stuff
@mastodonmigration@mastodon.online avatar

For those losing their heads over today's actions by Judge Cannon, take a deep breath. This was always going to happen. The writing has been on the wall since Judge Cannon was drawn for the case. Getting all worked up about it is only going to make you crazy and desperate. The way we will rid ourselves of this menace is at the polls in November.

For a sober discussion on this topic this exchange today between @Teri_Kanefield and @JonChevreau is highly recommended:

https://mstdn.ca/@JonChevreau/112401937598899929

Teri_Kanefield ,
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@eurobubba @mastodonmigration @JonChevreau

Hi, Michael: I don't think you understand the connection between elections and the judicial system.

In the federal system, judges are appointed by elected officials.

States do things differently, and often elect prosecutors and judges directly.

If you are snide again, I will block you.

I assume that most people understand the basics of how the American government works, and if they don't, I expect them to ask nicely.

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@eurobubba

This is snide and ugly:

If only voting matters, has @Teri_Kanefield completely written off the US justice system? Only in the Trump cases, or altogether?

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@eurobubba @mastodonmigration

I have a blog. You can go to my blog, and search for Criminal Law FAQ page.

That might be the best place to start reading.

"Hi, Teri, I haven't read much of your stuff. I'd like to know where you are coming from. What would you recommend" would be a nice way to ask.

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@eurobubba @mastodonmigration

I will even offer the link: https://terikanefield.com/criminallawfaqs/

My blog has a search function, but I just use google, which gets me there faster.

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@eurobubba @mastodonmigration

At the same time, if you think I was saying, "Don't worry, the courts are just broken" it is unlikely you will get much out of my blog.

I was about to be snide myself so I edited.

In other words, you may not be one of my readers. My work may never mean much to you. That's fine. That's why we have unfollow and mute buttons.

I personally would not take anyone seriously who said "don't worry our court are just broken."

JonChevreau , to Random stuff
@JonChevreau@mstdn.ca avatar

@Teri_Kanefield Hi Teri, believe Mastodon would love to hear your take on Judge Cannon “indefinitely” suspending the MAL documents case.

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@JonChevreau
Nope. Here's why: I spent two years listening to people demanding indictments. They were furious that there were no indictments. They said "We demand indictments because we need accountability!"

I said, "When indictment arrive, will not be happy. Judges will make decisions you don't like.. Juries are unpredictable. Indictments are not the accountability you think they are."

People insisted that there would never be indictments and indictments = accountability.

Now I'm worn out:)

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@JonChevreau

I am not offering a play by play commentary because the play by play doesn't matter.

The running commentary you hear is like sports commentators giving opinions when they are not actually watching the game because things are happening behind doors that we don't know.

These things take time to play out and until it all plays out, we will not have answers.

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@JonChevreau Of course you are.

Welcome to my world. I spent my career outraged over court decisions.

That's why I dedicated my career to representing indigents and doing what I can to help make things
better.

In the scheme of things, Cannon's decisions don't matter. Really, they don't. If you are feeling actual emotion it's because you have been persuaded that it matters.

What matters is how people vote in November. All the rest is commentary

Teri_Kanefield ,
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@JonChevreau

Just remember that an entire industry is profiting from keeping you enraged over what Cannon does. People are getting rich.

Teri_Kanefield ,
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@WmShakesp3are

I knew that the criminal justice system would not do what people expected.
I also knew that a lot of unethical lawyers were making a lot of money by telling people B.S. like "we need indictments for accountability" and thousands of people joined the chant.

Well, there are indictments. I was right about that.

And people are still enraged, so there really isn't more for me to do.

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@Edelruth @JonChevreau

I just joined a group of lawyers doing voter protection work for the election.

Getting angry while watching TV doesn't do anything to help.

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@JonChevreau @GottaLaff

This is exactly why the rage merchanting is so dangerous.

I've written about this at length. Things were much worse 60, 100, and 150 years ago. We got this far because people did the work.

They didn't sit in front of a TV feeling rage and "it's all hopeless."

Despair = privilege.

Teri_Kanefield ,
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@MartyLemert @Edelruth @JonChevreau

Poll workers are today's heroes.

Teri_Kanefield ,
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@alexhammy @JonChevreau

If you click on the rage baiters and follow them, you are giving them what they want.

cdlhamma , to Random stuff
@cdlhamma@hachyderm.io avatar

@Teri_Kanefield I'm sad that you won't chat about this stuff anymore, it’s one of the main reasons I followed you years ago because I appreciated your reasoned approach on these subjects. But it seems the angry commentators and people riled up about stuff have broken the ability for us to have civil discussion 🙁

I've never once been the enraged person messaging you, but those people have broken civil discourse in so many ways. I appreciate your work, I won't ask questions any longer.

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@cdlhamma

Yup.

I had to shut down my comments and people still emailed me.

One was a lawyer demanding that I change my mind after reading an opinion piece by a former prosecutor.

It wasn't this bad 5 years ago.

It is also not possible to read a factual statement like you offered and say whether it is "normal."

The fact that we have so many people in prison is not normal.

So what is normal?

I literally could not answer your question.

cdlhamma , to Random stuff
@cdlhamma@hachyderm.io avatar

@Teri_Kanefield as someone who’s spent zero time in courtrooms other than almost being a juror I’m curious, is it normal to violate a judges order ten times and not end up in jail by noon? And I realize there’s gray area here. Just curious because it seems extreme 😳

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@cdlhamma I am trying to find the original question you asked me. I'm writing a blog post right now about legal commentary and the problems with it.

You asked, "is this normal" and pointed to the criminal contempt for the 10th time, right?"

I have a question back to you. Did you think I'd be able to say "yes" or "no" easily?

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@cdlhamma

In that case, the answer would be,

'In my private appellate practice I do not recall anyone being jailed for violating a court order, but that could be because of the nature of cases I handled.

I did, however, observe situations when people violated orders, but that was generally in family matters with restraining orders.

Teri_Kanefield , (edited )
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@cdlhamma

And that would be of no help, right?

I assumed that what you wanted was for me to make a comment on whether Trump should have been jailed.

Put another way, you wanted to understand whether the court's ruling was good, bad, normal, or abnormal?

Teri_Kanefield ,
@Teri_Kanefield@mastodon.social avatar

@cdlhamma I did a better job in the blog post I'm about to finish responding to you.

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