@stgiga Even #Mastodon is not the original #Fedi software. That title belongs to an extinct software that’s even older than #GNUSocial & #Hubzilla (which both are older than Mastodon). For more details on Fedi history, check this timeline compiled by @youronlyone/@youronlyone who corrected some of my own misconceptions & wrong thoughts about Fedi stuff.
Release banner for Hubzilla 9.0 Hubzilla 9.0 is here and delivers many improvements under the hood and at the UI level. Two of the most asked features have been implemented: repeats a.k.a. boosts and adjustable theme colors at the channel and site level. Hubmins can also customize other components via the bootstrap sass variables.
Under the hood we implemented a short term object cash which will improve performance when fetching objects. The internal use of ActivityStreams1 has been deprecated in favor of ActivityStreams2. Object integrity proofs (EddsaSignatures) according to fep-8b32 have been implemented. Interesting for developers: CI and the test environment have been vastly improved.
Other notable changes are: refactored browser to browser encryption using the modern sodium crypto library and support for custom emojis with configurable emoji sets.
For a complete list of changes in Hubzilla 9.0 please refer to the changelog.
A big THANK YOU! to all contributors and everybody who supports Hubzilla and its development.
Breaking changes
The .htaccess file has been updated to fix an issue with recent Apache versions
Require sodium PHP extension
Require bcmath or gmp PHP extension
Require intl PHP extension
Versions < 9.0 will not be able to decrypt encrypted messages composed in version 9.0 in the UI
Poke and Mood apps removed
Removed smiley button addon
Removed smiley_pack addon
Removed emojione addon (use the emoji addon instead)
Removed fediwordle addon (use the fediquest addon instead)
Individual connection filters need manual intervention (e.g. replace http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/share with Announce when filtering repeats)
Update
Backup your data
Make sure that the sodium PHP extension is installed and enabled
Make sure that either the bcmath or gmp PHP extension is installed and enabled
Make sure that the intl PHP extension is installed and enabled
#Hubzilla is a powerful platform for creating interconnected websites featuring a decentralized identity, communications, and permissions framework built using common webserver technology.
@mario do you think there is any chance we'll see a #docker image for #Hubzilla as I had to give up my hub after moving away from cPanel hosting? I now keep all my services segmented in their own Docker containers.
Mike Macgirvin, the long-time developer that brought us #Friendica, #Hubzilla, #Streams, and the #Zot protocol, is bringing his most powerful concept to the rest of the #Fediverse: Nomadic Identity.
I occasionally log in here to keep it alive because this is historical and memorable for me. During this time, and before Mastodon was released, I was running my own Fediverse instance powered by #Hubzilla.
Back then, the protocol of the fediverse was #OStatus, work on #ActivityPub was still about to be started (IIRC).
Today, we have another federated protocol: #ATproto which is powering the #BlueSky network. (Or, is it ATproto network and BlueSky PDS?)
(PS. Max chars in Aleph.Land is 1024; and using the #GlitchSoc fork since it came out.)
If you haven't heard, sadly, #ChirpSocial, one of the popular #ActivityPub “groups” platform, is shutting down “probably” on February 29th.
In an email they sent to admins, the owner and developer can no longer support https://chirp.social financially as they failed to find a new job after they were laid off by #Google last year.
This reminds us the importance of having a built-in groups feature, and one where the groups feature actually federates.
Back in 2008, when the #Fediverse was born, we did have a built-in federated groups in #Laconica / #StatusNet (today known as #GNUsocial). We used bang (!) instead of at (@). A built-in groups feature is more stable as established instances can host them.
Today, we have #Friendica and #Hubzilla (as well as #Streams-based instances) to fill in that, as groups is a built-in feature in those software products. It's just a matter of finding an instance that's open to hosting groups for any topic for the ActivityPub protocol.
That said, any Friendica, Hubzilla, Streams-based instances you suggest for groups?
#Bluesky just opened up support for hosting your own server. So I spent a few hours setting one up.
It was pretty painful. The documentation is incomplete, and there's still a manual approval process that is opaque.
It's also not what I expected. It's not like Mastodon where you wind up with your own fully-hosted instance with its own URL. Instead you still access your server via the main web app at bsky.app. The DB is self-hosted but not the UI.
From what I've read when they first went public about it, it was because of #portability which don't exist in the #ActivityPub protocol. When I informed them about the #NomadicIdentity powering #Hubzilla (and #Streams today), they said they weren't aware of it (at least from what I can recall), so they'll look into it.
The second reason is moderation. Which, if we only look at AP protocol it's pretty much basic, if any. But if they were only aware of Hubzilla's #Zot protocol before they started their project, they probably would've used it since moderation and permissions are awesome in Zot (far better than what #Bluesky / #ATproto currently have today).
And well, they already started their own project and set up their goals, so they pushed for it.
At least that's how I understood it. Not necessarily accurate.
#Hubzilla fans, what is the best mobile client to use with Hubzilla? I am finding that #Fedilab, my favorite mastodon/#friendica client, doesnt work with Hubzilla.
Thanks for any tips as I explore a new corner of the #Fediverse.
Just trying to understand things (maybe someone can help).
Summary of long post:
The Friendica, Hubzilla, Streams, and Socialhome, approach is:
A group of people in the room having a discussion in their own languages. Only people who understand more than one language can understand other people.
The Threads approach is:
They provide their own translator who interprets between two languages.
The Bridge approach is:
There are two translators.
1st Translator: knows Filipino Sign Language (FSL) and English.
2nd Translator: knows Japanese Sign Language (JSL) and English.
a. A Filipino communicated in FSL.
b. Translator A translates FSL into English.
c. Translator B translates English into JSL.
There is a bridge between the FSL and JSL speakers.
How I understand it:
In #Friendica#Hubzilla#Streams and #Socialhome, if users comment on your post from #diaspora and #ActivityPub, users without the other protocol will not see those replies. Only accounts with both protocols can see the comments from both networks.
There is no “opt-in” or “opt-out”, it just is.
I'm no expert in this, but if I understood it correctly, the reason is the mentioned software are not acting as a bridge or translation between protocols. A comment/post from diaspora remains as diaspora, it is not remade into ActivityPub; and vice versa.
In a bridge, there is a translation going on. An ActivityPub comment/post is remade into a Bluesky comment/post and vice versa.
Again, IF I understood it correctly.
#Threads is testing their AP feature, and as it currently stands, a #Fediverse user commenting on a Threads post, that comment is only visible to Threads accounts with AP enabled. At the same time, Threads comments are only visible in the Fediverse if that Threads account who made the comment have AP enabled.
(Based on limited testing when I left comments on AP enabled Threads posts.)
In Threads approach, it appears that they do some translation between Threads-protocol and AP. Or, maybe, they do some filter, if an account enables AP, a Threads-proto post/comment is encapsulated as an AP so AP-supporting sites can recognise it.
I think a lot of my frustration with some of the “consent based” social networking pushers is the lack of consistency. Those same people don’t want to utilise software that will grant them the experiences they desire, instead they want to argue and fight in an attempt to force others. Why not use #Hubzilla#GoToSocial#CounterSocial and others that have more control? Or join spaces that have allow list federation? #Fedi#Fediverse#Mastodon
first the text sounded to me like we have it with #Hubzilla and #Streams since day one... with the mayor difference that the Zot / Nomad / AP network is not designed by a company which likely wants make some profit after some time.
Bluesky is not a free Network because the rules it runs by are not open for free development.
The AT protocol is open but not the software which runs Server and Clients.
Bluesky is build around BGS (Big Graph Service) only few players will be able to run.. and all data inside this Bluesky system is more or less public. So the one who can run a BGS will be able to see it more or less all.
So #Bluesky is not at all like "the Internet" as they try to put it in the text and not for sure like #Hubzilla and #Streams - Bluesky is not about privacy
@chris Definitely agree about the privacy thing, this is something quite some people seem to be completely unaware, but are you sure about software (clients, server) not being open? I thought that was one of the things they started out with rather early, same as opening the protocol itself. (Being pretty much in dislike with the structures that built Bluesky, I still am pissed having to admit they at least tried to fix what ActivityPub apparently never cared to do right - accounts not permanently and forever tied to a particular instance. Wish #Hubzilla had more presence at this point being able to promote and establish Nomadic Identity as a core Fediverse standard. 🙁)
Maybe I should start an irregular series of "What Hubzilla is like" posts for people in the Fediverse, Mastodon specifically, who don't know anything about it. Not for those who want to switch, but for those who assume that Hubzilla is just like whatever else they know. Like, for Mastodon users who blindly assume that Hubzilla is just like Mastodon with a different UI and then act accordingly. Thus, it'd mostly focus on how Hubzilla is different from Mastodon.
The difficult part would be to limit these posts to only 500 characters. Minus what I'll need for the hashtags, namely #Hubzilla, #FediTips and #FediverseTips to increase discoverability for those who are interested and #FediMeta, #FediverseMeta, #CWFediMeta and #CWFediverseMeta so that these posts are automatically removed or hidden behind generated content warnings by already existing filters. Because I know for a fact that many Mastodon users won't touch anything that goes even a smidge over 500 characters. And I know that there are Mastodon users for whom any and all Fediverse meta is too nerve-gratingly techy.
> Everyone else who talks about the non-Mastodon Fediverse isn't on Mastodon.
Not really. 🤪 I'm on a Mastodon-powered instance.
I used to run a #Philippines#Friendica server. (It was the second #fediverse instance for the Philippines. The first was running Friendika managed by students.)
Then I ran my own #Hubzilla (family & friends). And used to manage the community for an #ASEAN Hubzilla instance (sadly, the sponsor and admin disappeared).
Today, I'm staying away from the backend management. I no longer have the resources to dedicate to it. So, I just search for instances with sane set up (like not abusing site-level blocks because someone told them to).
"True Fediverse citizens" (for lack of a better label) do exist on Mastodon-powered platforms. There are plenty of others beside me. 😃
Admins should probably discuss with their communities whether or not they want their instances opted-in by default. I think it's unfortunate that he built it to be opt-out rather than opt-in, but Ryan does, at least, seem open to working toward mutually agreeable solutions.
@lrhodes Just trying to understand where you are coming from.
Is the issue about “because it's Bluesky” and not the bridge itself?
Let's change the scenario.
Let's say Bluesky also implemented ActivityPub side-by-side with ATproto (just like how #Socialhome implemented #diaspora side-by-side with #ActivityPub; or #Friendica / #Hubzilla / #Streams have their own protocols side-by-side with AP).
Is there still going to be an issue about it? Or, will it turn into “let's #fediblock Bluesky!”
If it is about “because it's Bluesky”, then the issue is similar to how some people don't want company X and company Y and company Z from implementing the W3C standard ActivityPub, otherwise, they'll fediblock them, correct?
In the case of bridges then, if someone creates a bridge between ActivityPub and, for example, LinkedIn, it should be “opt-in” by default because some users don't want to see their posts/replies within the LinkedIn network. And if LinkedIn later decides to implement ActivityPub, they will be fediblocked?
It doesn't matter if you are new to the #fediverse or if you have been here forever, it's always good to keep in mind that (a) what server you pick, and (b) what software that server runs, matter.
I should admit am fairly new at this. I created my first fediverse account only a year ago. It was a #mastodon server with about 8,000 users. And while it "worked" there was something missing from the experience.
While researching the idea of hosting my own server, I discovered #FireFish which in turn led to discovering #IceShrimp. It's hard to describe how much better the experience is with IceShrimp.
The #UI is just so much better, and the feature set way more robust. The way it handles replies, the ability to quote, to use multiple emojis, etc.
If you have friends or family thinking about joining the Fediverse or are feeling unimpressed with your mastodon experience, I highly recommend getting an account running IceShrimp or other similar software.
Probably also worth mentioning that I also looked at using a #Wordpress integration and #Hubzilla#GoToSocial#Pleroma#Humhub and #Streams. I found them to be clunky; reminding me of how email was in the early 90s.
If the fediverse is going to thrive, then it needs to make a good first impression. Moving beyond mastodon is a good step in the right direction.
@Methylcobalamin And it is still useless if not counterintuitive for the end user anyway because it is too trivial to circumvent (even unintentionally!) the security theatre that #Mastodon feature request is proposing. Which means to truly enforce the user's "request" (it's turned on by default btw which makes it even worse) to not quote their post, the instance's admin will have to defederate all instances that don't support Mastodon's "privacy setting" for #quoteposts. Which then means less useful timelines and broken social connections for the end users because congratulations, you just placed a #fediblock on the rest of the vast #fediverse using software like #Misskey, #Pleroma, #Akkoma, #Sharkey, #Hubzilla, #Friendica, etc.!
So how is this helpful for the end user, again? :sagume_think:
The #Mastodon software setting of #Spoutible is now a dropdown menu. Currently only for mastodon.social and mastodon.online.
Maybe it's temporary but if it's not, they'll have to add at least a hundred reputable and popular servers. Also, it's Mastodon software only. There are far more software, older and/or better than Mastodon which will probably not get support, at least as far as the approach I am seeing.
I'm tempted to add the following preamble to all my posts and comments. This would answer a lot of questions right away and maybe leave nothing unclear.
Preamble
IMPORTANT: I am not on Mastodon. I am on Hubzilla. Hubzilla is not a Mastodon instance. Hubzilla is a wholly different project in the Fediverse. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. The Fediverse has never been only Mastodon. And Hubzilla is not a fork of Mastodon either.
Mastodon was not even here first. The first was StatusNet from 2008 which later became GNU social. Then came Friendica in 2010. And Hubzilla is from 2015 and based on a project from 2012. Mastodon was launched in 2016. It was immediately federated with all three because it spoke a language that these three spoke, too. Except for GNU social, all are still federated with one another to this day. And this is normal, legal and fully intentional.
We aren't the intruders. Technically speaking, Mastodon is the intruder.
Hubzilla has features that Mastodon doesn't have. Hubzilla has an unlimited character count where Mastodon has a limit of 500 characters. Hubzilla can create various ways of text formatting such as bold type, italics, code blocks, lists or headlines; Mastodon can display them now, but it can't create them. Hubzilla can embed hyperlinks; Mastodon toots only support URLs in plain sight. Hubzilla can do both quotes and "quote-tweets", and it doesn't have to resort to screenshots for either. And Hubzilla always mentions users by their full name, not by their short name like Mastodon.
When Mastodon was launched with its self-imposed restrictions, Hubzilla had had all these features for almost four years already. Friendica had had the same features for almost six years already. And many of these features, including longer posts and text formatting, have been available on all other Fediverse projects since they were created.
Thus, I will use features that are not available on Mastodon even though Mastodon users could read this. I will not refrain from writing over 500 characters in one post, and I will not refrain from using text formatting just because Mastodon users aren't used to that.
We were here first. And we won't limit ourselves just because you're limited by the software you're using. We will continue to make use of features that you don't have. Deal with it.
Unfortunately, the target audience of this, Mastodon users, won't read it because it's too long. Not to mention that it'd require a boatload of content warnings and filter-triggering hashtags; see below.
@jupiter_rowland I can disprove your point right there - although I am on #Hubzilla, #Friendica and #Matstodon, I saw your post on my Mastodon account, and read it. Shows up in full length.